Sure, but a vertical is sensitive to air dens= ity=20 changes and wind generates these only too easily from many Hz downwards.

    His ques= tion about=20 the pressure cover is a good one. Normally the atmospheric
noise= we=20 see on the vertical is in the frequency range of minutes and is
reduce= d by a=20 factor of 10 or 20 by adding a sealed cover. If your vertical
is= small=20 enough to be covered by a cooking pot, that would work nicely. A=20
typical setup would be a very solid base slab, like 2-4" thick=20
granite with an inverted pot or similar container sealed down ov= er=20
it. The granite base is because pressure changes will cause anyt= hing=20 much
less solid to flex under the seismo and generate noise. Our= =20 experience was
that 3/4" aluminum flexes way too much. For seali= ng=20 things, including
cable openings, Dave Nelson has found that the putty= -like=20 windshield
sealant seems to work nicely.
    http://www.deta= ilandstripes.com/3mwirorise08.html =20 It sticks
things together very well, remains workable and is designed= to not=20 squeeze
out from between the windshield and car frame or in our case= the=20 base slab
and pressure container.

I can buy a similar product called Bl= uTack or=20 WhiteTack in flat sheet form about 1/8" thick. See http://www.artech-electronics.com/us/products/accesso/blutack.html&n= bsp;

If a vertical has any long period sensiti= vity=20 at all, it should be pressure sealed.

Or alternatively compensated? See htt= p://eost.u-strasbg.fr/alessia/papers/SundaySeismometer.pdf for=20 the Press-Ewing glass float compensated vertical seismometer. How about us= ing an=20 Aluminum Drinks Can?

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Caution on low pass filtering emphasis From: THOMAS DICK dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:22:01 -0500 Roger=2C I am out of town right now=2E I thought you were in Monroe LA =2E=2E=2EC= ould we talk by direct email=3F Mine is dickthomas01=40insightbb=2Ecom=2E= I will get back late Monday=2E = ----- Original Message ----- From=3A Brett Nordgren =3Cbrett3nt=40bnordgren=2Eorg=3E Date=3A Saturday=2C January 2=2C 2010 11=3A23 Subject=3A Re=3A Caution on=A0 low pass filtering emphasis To=3A psn-l=40webtronics=2Ecom =3E Hi Roger=2C =3E = =3E At 09=3A37 PM 1/1/2010 -0800=2C you wrote=3A =3E =3EHello Thomas=2C =3E =3E =3E =3EI took a look before and after the quake but did not see = =3E anything unusual=2E =3E =3E =3E =3ENot unusual for this location is to have a fuzzy trace (=7E1 Hz = =3E High Pass) = =3E =3Ebeginning about 0630 and ending about 1700 local times=2E=A0 = =3E Since I am using = =3E =3Ea vertical=2C I have attributed this to the sun warming the = =3E =3Eatmosphere=2E=A0 But=2C the noise does not seem to be present = =3E during non-work = =3E =3Edays which is completely inconsistent with a solar source=2E =3E = =3E Your description could almost be the definition for man-made=2C so = =3E called = =3E cultural noise=2E=A0 Natural phenomena=2C though some might drop = =3E at night=2C aren=27t = =3E usually affected by weekends and holidays=2E =3E = =3E =3E=A0 I live about 2 miles from any serious auto traffic which = =3E would be on = =3E =3E I-90 in Central Washington=2E=A0 I have no explanation for = =3E this =22fuzz=22 =3E = =3E I think that you are almost certainly seeing truck traffic on = =3E the = =3E Interstate=2E=A0 2 miles is plenty close for a sensitive instrument=2E= =3E = =3E =3EThe =22fuzz=22 is not visible with either the all pass or low pas= s = =3E filters in = =3E =3Eplace=2E =3E =3E =3E =3EOne puzzle here is that in the past I could get a fairly clean = =3E FFT peak at = =3E =3Eabout 6 seconds and little at longer periods=2E=A0 Lately=2C I = =3E notice a broader = =3E =3Epeak at 6 seconds and a second peak as low as 44 seconds (both = =3E very broad = =3E =3Epeaks)=2E=A0 I took a look at about 4 hours of data a few = =3E moments ago and = =3E =3Econfirmed what I had previously found=2E=A0 Would we be seeing = =3E the same thing=3F =3E = =3E The 6-second microseism peak is constantly changing=2C so = =3E changes=A0 there are = =3E not that surprising=2E =3E = =3E I agree that the low frequency peak might very well be the = =3E atmospheric = =3E stuff proposed by Chris=2C though verticals are mostly immune to = =3E the = =3E wind-caused ground tilting that is so annoying with = =3E horizontals=2E=A0 His = =3E question about the pressure cover is a good one=2E=A0 Normally = =3E the atmospheric = =3E noise we see on the vertical is in the frequency range of = =3E minutes and is = =3E reduced by a factor of 10 or 20 by adding a sealed cover=2E=A0 = =3E If your vertical = =3E is small enough to be covered by a cooking pot=2C that would work = =3E nicely=2E=A0 A = =3E typical setup would be a very solid base slab=2C like 2-4=22 thick = =3E granite=A0 with an inverted pot or similar container sealed = =3E down over = =3E it=2E=A0 The granite base is because pressure changes will = =3E cause anything much = =3E less solid to flex under the seismo and generate noise=2E=A0 = =3E Our experience was = =3E that 3/4=22 aluminum flexes way too much=2E=A0 For sealing = =3E things=2C including = =3E cable openings=2C Dave Nelson has found that the putty-like = =3E windshield = =3E sealant seems to work = =3E nicely=2E=A0 = =3E http=3A//www=2Edetailandstripes=2Ecom/3mwirorise08=2Ehtml=A0 It = =3E sticks = =3E things together very well=2C remains workable and is designed to = =3E not squeeze = =3E out from between the windshield and car frame or in our case the = =3E base slab = =3E and pressure container=2E =3E = =3E If a vertical has any long period sensitivity at all=2C it should = =3E be pressure = =3E sealed=2E =3E = =3E Good luck=2C =3E Brett =3E = =3E Watch our wiggles =3E http=3A//bnordgren=2Eorg/seismo/gif=5Fimages=2Ehtm =3E = =3E or watch some very very good wiggles =3E http=3A//aslwww=2Ecr=2Eusgs=2Egov/Seismic=5FData/telemetry=5Fdata/AN= MO=5F24hr=2Ehtml =3E = =3E = =3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E = =3E Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) =3E = =3E To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM with = =3E the body of the message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe =3E See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more informa= tion=2E =3E Roger=2C=3Cbr=3EI am out of town right now=2E I thought you were in Monr= oe LA =2E=2E=2ECould we talk by direct email=3F Mine is dickthomas01=40i= nsightbb=2Ecom=2E I will get back late Monday=2E =3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E----- O= riginal Message -----=3Cbr=3EFrom=3A Brett Nordgren =26lt=3Bbrett3nt=40b= nordgren=2Eorg=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3EDate=3A Saturday=2C January 2=2C 2010 11=3A= 23=3Cbr=3ESubject=3A Re=3A Caution on=26nbsp=3B low pass filtering empha= sis=3Cbr=3ETo=3A psn-l=40webtronics=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Hi Rog= er=2C=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B At 09=3A37 PM 1/1/2010 -0800=2C y= ou wrote=3A=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3BHello Thomas=2C=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26g= t=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3BI took a look before and after the quake bu= t did not see =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B anything unusual=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt= =3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3BNot unusual for this location is to have a f= uzzy trace (=7E1 Hz =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B High Pass) =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B= beginning about 0630 and ending about 1700 local times=2E=26nbsp=3B =3Cb= r=3E=26gt=3B Since I am using =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3Ba vertical=2C I h= ave attributed this to the sun warming the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3Batmo= sphere=2E=26nbsp=3B But=2C the noise does not seem to be present =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B during non-work =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3Bdays which is complete= ly inconsistent with a solar source=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B = Your description could almost be the definition for man-made=2C so =3Cbr= =3E=26gt=3B called =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B cultural noise=2E=26nbsp=3B Natural = phenomena=2C though some might drop =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B at night=2C aren=27= t =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B usually affected by weekends and holidays=2E=3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26nbsp=3B I live about 2 miles from any = serious auto traffic which =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B would be on =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= =26gt=3B I-90 in Central Washington=2E=26nbsp=3B I have no explanation = for =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B this =22fuzz=22=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B I = think that you are almost certainly seeing truck traffic on =3Cbr=3E=26g= t=3B the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Interstate=2E=26nbsp=3B 2 miles is plenty clos= e for a sensitive instrument=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B= The =22fuzz=22 is not visible with either the all pass or low pass =3Cbr= =3E=26gt=3B filters in =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3Bplace=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3BOne puzzle here is that in the past I = could get a fairly clean =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B FFT peak at =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26= gt=3Babout 6 seconds and little at longer periods=2E=26nbsp=3B Lately=2C= I =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B notice a broader =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3Bpeak at 6 = seconds and a second peak as low as 44 seconds (both =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B ve= ry broad =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3Bpeaks)=2E=26nbsp=3B I took a look at a= bout 4 hours of data a few =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B moments ago and =3Cbr=3E=26g= t=3B =26gt=3Bconfirmed what I had previously found=2E=26nbsp=3B Would we= be seeing =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the same thing=3F=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B The 6-second microseism peak is constantly changing=2C so =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B changes=26nbsp=3B there are =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B not that surprisin= g=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B I agree that the low frequency pea= k might very well be the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B atmospheric =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B s= tuff proposed by Chris=2C though verticals are mostly immune to =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B wind-caused ground tilting that is so anno= ying with =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B horizontals=2E=26nbsp=3B His =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= question about the pressure cover is a good one=2E=26nbsp=3B Normally =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B the atmospheric =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B noise we see on the verti= cal is in the frequency range of =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B minutes and is =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B reduced by a factor of 10 or 20 by adding a sealed cover=2E=26n= bsp=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B If your vertical =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B is small enoug= h to be covered by a cooking pot=2C that would work =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B nic= ely=2E=26nbsp=3B A =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B typical setup would be a very solid = base slab=2C like 2-4=22 thick =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B granite=26nbsp=3B with a= n inverted pot or similar container sealed =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B down over =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B it=2E=26nbsp=3B The granite base is because pressure chang= es will =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B cause anything much =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B less solid= to flex under the seismo and generate noise=2E=26nbsp=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= Our experience was =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B that 3/4=22 aluminum flexes way too= much=2E=26nbsp=3B For sealing =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B things=2C including =3Cb= r=3E=26gt=3B cable openings=2C Dave Nelson has found that the putty-like= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B windshield =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B sealant seems to work =3Cb= r=3E=26gt=3B nicely=2E=26nbsp=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B http=3A//www=2Edetaila= ndstripes=2Ecom/3mwirorise08=2Ehtml=26nbsp=3B It =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B sticks= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B things together very well=2C remains workable and is d= esigned to =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B not squeeze =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B out from betwee= n the windshield and car frame or in our case the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B base = slab =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B and pressure container=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B If a vertical has any long period sensitivity at all=2C it shou= ld =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B be pressure =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B sealed=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Good luck=2C=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Brett=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B Watch our wiggles=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B http=3A//bnordgren=2Eorg= /seismo/gif=5Fimages=2Ehtm=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B or watch som= e very very good wiggles=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B http=3A//aslwww=2Ecr=2Eusgs=2Eg= ov/Seismic=5FData/telemetry=5Fdata/ANMO=5F24hr=2Ehtml=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=3Cbr=3E=26g= t=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST=40SEISM= ICNET=2ECOM with =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the body of the message (first line on= ly)=3A unsubscribe=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/m= aillist=2Ehtml for more information=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Subject: Hekla volcano From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:38:42 +0000 Hi all, There is a high risk of Hekla volcano erupting in next few months, weeks or days. The long term signs appears to be showing, as increased heat in the volcano. My Hekla seismomter is located something about 10 km away from the volcano. So when it starts, the rumble from the eruption is going to show there. Other volcanoes are also showing sign of activity, the other active one is Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. Magma intrusion is happening under the volcano and it is creating micro-earthquakes in the volcano. I will post a notifaction on the postlist when the eruption starts. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Caution on low pass filtering emphasis From: RSparks rsparks@.......... Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 05:59:40 -0800 Hello All, Thanks for the many comments. My seismometer is located in my "Wine Cellar" which is semi sealed. I do get wind noise but not too badly. Additional sealing would no doubt help reduce the very low frequency noise I am seeing. The instrument has a clear plastic cover sitting on three legs to prevent any rocking. No sealing here. About a month ago, I clamped the seismometer to the basement concrete floor. I thought it reduced the high frequency noise a little but have no obvious confirmation of improvement. My boom hinge is a spring, and the joints all seem tight. The daytime "fuzz" may be truck noise from the interstate two miles distant. I will do a little more to try to correlate this noise with dates, sunrise times, and weather. Thanks All, Roger __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: WinSDR decimating From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 07:44:33 -0500 Larry, I am generating event files to use for analyzing our noise and was wondering how WinSDR handles reducing the sample rate. Suppose we're sampling at 200 SPS (Version III board) and we want to save an event file at 1 SPS. How does WinSDR handle the decimation of the data to the lower sample rate. Does it mathematically process the data in some way or just pass along every 200th point? Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seismology Web Page... From: Jan Froom JDarwin@............. Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:30:43 -0800 I apologize if this has been pointed out before... But I just came across the seismology web pages of Doctor Steve Dutch from the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay. Being only an amateur, I find Doctor Dutch's descriptions and animations quite extraordinary in helping me understand many of the principals I see discussed in this form... and also to help me explain to others the mechanics of seismology and seismometers. Check it out for yourselves.... http://www.uwgb.edu/DutchS/EarthSC202Notes/quakes.htm Jan in Gilroy I apologize if this has been pointed out before...
But I just came across the seismology web pages of
Doctor Steve Dutch from the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay.

Being only an amateur, I find Doctor Dutch's descriptions and animations quite extraordinary in helping
me understand many of the principals I see discussed in this form... and also to help me explain to others
the mechanics of seismology and seismometers.

Check it out for yourselves.... http://www.uwgb.edu/DutchS/EarthSC202Notes/quakes.htm

Jan in Gilroy

Subject: Re: WinSDR decimating From: Robert McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 17:29:47 -0500 Brett, I have asked Larry this question before. The data is sample-averaged. Thus, if you reduce the sample rate by a factor of 10, then 10 samples are averaged to yield the output sample. On 1/8/10, Brett Nordgren wrote: > Larry, > > I am generating event files to use for analyzing our noise and was > wondering how WinSDR handles reducing the sample rate. Suppose we're > sampling at 200 SPS (Version III board) and we want to save an event file > at 1 SPS. How does WinSDR handle the decimation of the data to the lower > sample rate. Does it mathematically process the data in some way or just > pass along every 200th point? > > Brett > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: California earthquake From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 01:03:39 +0000 Hi all, Any damage reports from the California earthquake ? Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: California earthquake From: Canie canie@........... Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 17:18:27 -0800 Doubtful since it was pretty far offshore - here=20 is a link to people reporting having felt it: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/dyfi/events/nc/71338066/us/index.html There are a couple locations saying strongly=20 felt.. no news reports of anything yet. Canie (Southern California) At 05:03 PM 1/9/2010, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Any damage reports from the California earthquake ? > >Regards, >-- >J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >http://www.jonfr.com > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: California earthquake From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 01:45:46 +0000 Hi, CNN is reporting power outages in the areas closest to the epicenter of the earthquake. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2010-01-09 at 17:18 -0800, Canie wrote: > Doubtful since it was pretty far offshore - here=20 > is a link to people reporting having felt it: > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/dyfi/events/nc/71338066/us/index.h= tml >=20 > There are a couple locations saying strongly=20 > felt.. no news reports of anything yet. >=20 > Canie (Southern California) >=20 > At 05:03 PM 1/9/2010, you wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >Any damage reports from the California earthquake ? > > > >Regards, > >-- > >J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > >http://www.jonfr.com > > > >__________________________________________________________ > > > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: WinSDR decimating From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:54:40 -0800 Hi Brett, Bob is correct, WinSDR averages the input samples to produce the decimated output samples. Regards, Larry Cochrane Webtronics Robert McClure wrote: > Brett, I have asked Larry this question before. The data is > sample-averaged. Thus, if you reduce the sample rate by a factor of > 10, then 10 samples are averaged to yield the output sample. > > On 1/8/10, Brett Nordgren wrote: >> Larry, >> >> I am generating event files to use for analyzing our noise and was >> wondering how WinSDR handles reducing the sample rate. Suppose we're >> sampling at 200 SPS (Version III board) and we want to save an event file >> at 1 SPS. How does WinSDR handle the decimation of the data to the lower >> sample rate. Does it mathematically process the data in some way or just >> pass along every 200th point? >> >> Brett >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: California earthquake From: Canie canie@........... Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 19:41:57 -0800 Here's a pretty good article saying what's up - http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/a-strong-earthquake-estimated-= magnitude-65-rocked-the-eureka--calif-area-this-afternoon-snapping-power-lin= es-toppling.html I also heard there were some heart attacks - not sure how good that source= is.. Canie (Southern California) At 05:03 PM 1/9/2010, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Any damage reports from the California earthquake ? > >Regards, >-- >J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >http://www.jonfr.com > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: WinSDR decimating From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 22:44:32 -0500 Thanks Bob and Larry, That's what I needed to know. Brett At 06:54 PM 1/9/2010 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Brett, > >Bob is correct, WinSDR averages the input samples to produce the decimated >output samples. > >Regards, >Larry Cochrane >Webtronics > >Robert McClure wrote: >>Brett, I have asked Larry this question before. The data is >>sample-averaged. Thus, if you reduce the sample rate by a factor of >>10, then 10 samples are averaged to yield the output sample. >>On 1/8/10, Brett Nordgren wrote: >>>Larry, >>> >>>I am generating event files to use for analyzing our noise and was >>>wondering how WinSDR handles reducing the sample rate. Suppose we're >>>sampling at 200 SPS (Version III board) and we want to save an event file >>>at 1 SPS. How does WinSDR handle the decimation of the data to the lower >>>sample rate. Does it mathematically process the data in some way or just >>>pass along every 200th point? >>> >>>Brett >> >>Watch our wiggles >>http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm >> >>or watch some very very good wiggles >>http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/ANMO_24hr.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: oddball LA area quake listing From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 21:23:36 +1100 Hi Gang, Seasons greetings from the "land down under" just been catching up on december quake reports from the USGS site and found a report that seems to be unsubstantiated http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/neic_qpcu.html A M5.5 in the Whittier area SW of downtown LA, it must surely be incorrect specially as far as magnitude is concerned. There are no record files in Larry's database showing that any of you guys recorded the event. the felt report of MMII doesnt fit a M5.5 at 11 km depth, it would have been quite strong and damaging .... maybe it was a M2.5 ??? the mind boggles ;) Dave N Sydney Oz __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: oddball LA area quake listing From: Canie canie@........... Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:40:04 -0800 I found this one: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/dyfi/events/ci/14563188/us/index.html not a 5.5 - but a 2.1 within seconds of the other 5.5 - about the same location I also don't remember any 5.5 here and I would have felt it. Canie At 02:23 AM 1/11/2010, you wrote: >Hi Gang, > Seasons greetings from the "land down under" > > just been catching up on december quake reports from the USGS site >and found a report that seems to be unsubstantiated > >http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/neic_qpcu.html > >A M5.5 in the Whittier area SW of downtown LA, it must surely be incorrect >specially as far as magnitude is concerned. There are no record >files in Larry's >database showing that any of you guys recorded the event. >the felt report of MMII doesnt fit a M5.5 at 11 km depth, it would >have been quite >strong and damaging .... maybe it was a M2.5 ??? > >the mind boggles ;) > >Dave N >Sydney >Oz > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Sensor noise / Winquake fft From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:03:33 -0600 Barry Lotz wrote: > > Maybe all you folks were aware of it but it just came to my attention > now. Winquake has the nice feature that , after selecting an event > file, if you select a time window with the mouse and you run a > "window" FFT you will see the FFT for that time window. Now display > both windows on the same screen one below the other. Set the button to > display the event phases. If you now use the horizontal scroll bar > you can start before the event and scroll thru the event noting how > the frequencies change as the phases arrive. I see this very useful in > selecting the filter to use in processing your data. > > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com > > -- > Barry would you try putting this into different words. I tried to do it and couldn't get it to work. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: test From: "Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:34:36 -0800 Test. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 5:04 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Sensor noise / Winquake fft Barry Lotz wrote: > > Maybe all you folks were aware of it but it just came to my attention > now. Winquake has the nice feature that , after selecting an event > file, if you select a time window with the mouse and you run a > "window" FFT you will see the FFT for that time window. Now display > both windows on the same screen one below the other. Set the button to > display the event phases. If you now use the horizontal scroll bar > you can start before the event and scroll thru the event noting how > the frequencies change as the phases arrive. I see this very useful in > selecting the filter to use in processing your data. > > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com > > -- > Barry would you try putting this into different words. I tried to do it and couldn't get it to work. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Dog in video... From: "Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:36:17 -0800 RE: Northern California Quake M6.5 Sunday, January 11, 2010 I thought this video was quite remarkable. I'm not sure if the dog is reacting to the arrival of the P-wave or something else that people have talked about for years regarding precursor animal behavior. What do you all think? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAzZIH4_X-s __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Dog in video... From: Canie canie@........... Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:52:28 -0800 Probably the p wave.. Canie At 06:36 PM 1/11/2010, you wrote: >RE: Northern California Quake M6.5 Sunday, January 11, 2010 > >I thought this video was quite remarkable. I'm not sure if the dog is >reacting to the arrival of the P-wave or something else that people have >talked about for years regarding precursor animal behavior. What do you all >think? > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAzZIH4_X-s > > > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Sensor noise / Winquake fft From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 05:53:30 -0800 (PST) Thomas Let's see. First you display an event. Then if you take the mouse and click= on some point in time during the event. Then while depressing the mouse sw= eep across to a second time you will get a blow up of the new time window. = Then click on the fft button ( the smaller one). This gives you an FFT of t= hat time window. Both windows are there, you have to hit the button that wi= ll allow both to be displayed. I then positioned both the fft and the time = window so I could see them at the same time. I put the FFt on the top (full= monitor width but half the screen height. The time window I put on the bot= tom. Because you have selected only a portion of the event time window, the= re will be a scroll bar on the bottom. The fft displays what is on the time= screen, so if you move the scroll bar in the time window you will see the = FFt for that window. Therefore if you have the phases shown in the time win= dow , when you scroll pass that point in time with the scroll bar you will see the frequency change as the phase arrives. Sort of long winde= d. Clear as mud? Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Thomas Dick wrote: From: Thomas Dick Subject: Re: Sensor noise / Winquake fft To: psn-l@.............. Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 5:03 PM Barry Lotz wrote: >=20 > Maybe all you folks were aware of it but it just came to my attention now= .. Winquake has the nice feature that , after selecting an event file, if yo= u select a time window with the mouse and you run a "window" FFT you will s= ee the FFT for that time window. Now display both windows on the same scree= n one below the other. Set the button to display the event=A0 phases. If yo= u now use the horizontal scroll bar you can start before the event and scro= ll thru the event noting how the frequencies change as the phases arrive. I= see this very useful in selecting the filter to use in processing your dat= a. >=20 > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com >=20 > --=20 Barry would you try putting this into different words. I tried to do it and= couldn't get it to work. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

Thomas
Let's see. First you display an eve= nt. Then if you take the mouse and click on some point in time during the e= vent. Then while depressing the mouse sweep across to a second time you wil= l get a blow up of the new time window. Then click on the fft button ( the = smaller one). This gives you an FFT of that time window. Both windows are t= here, you have to hit the button that will allow both to be displayed. I th= en positioned both the fft and the time window so I could see them at the s= ame time. I put the FFt on the top (full monitor width but half the screen = height. The time window I put on the bottom. Because you have selected only= a portion of the event time window, there will be a scroll bar on the bott= om. The fft displays what is on the time screen, so if you move the scroll = bar in the time window you will see the FFt for that window. Therefore if y= ou have the phases shown in the time window , when you scroll pass that point= in time with the scroll bar you will see the frequency change as the phase= arrives. Sort of long winded. Clear as mud?

Regards
Barry
http://ww= w.seismicvault.com

--- On Mon, 1/11/10, Thomas Dick <= ;dickthomas01@.............> wrote:

=
From: Thomas Dick <dickthomas01@.............>
Subject: Re: Se= nsor noise / Winquake fft
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Monday, Janu= ary 11, 2010, 5:03 PM

Barry Lotz wrote:
= >
> Maybe all you folks were aware of it but it just came to my a= ttention now. Winquake has the nice feature that , after selecting an event= file, if you select a time window with the mouse and you run a "window" FFT you will see the FFT for that time window. Now display both windows on= the same screen one below the other. Set the button to display the event&n= bsp; phases. If you now use the horizontal scroll bar you can start before = the event and scroll thru the event noting how the frequencies change as th= e phases arrive. I see this very useful in selecting the filter to use in p= rocessing your data.
>
> Regards
> Barry
> http://www.seismicvault.= com
>
> --
Barry would you try putting this into diffe= rent words. I tried to do it and couldn't get it to work.
______________= ____________________________________________

Public Seismic Network = Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (fir= st line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for = more information.

Subject: Animals and Earthquakes From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:37:15 -0800 I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community = Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles = City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first = responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA = (1993) and the training materials are available online at = http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of = them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain = this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is = what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come = PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or = non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. =20 =20 Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an = earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing = primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not = make good earthquake warning devices. =20 =20

I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the = CERT program=20 (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the = Los=20 Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be = first=20 responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by = FEMA=20 (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizenco= rps.gov/cert/index.shtm

In their training manual they discuss various = earthquake=20 myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from = anyone who=20 can explain this. Below is the material in their training = manual. My=20 questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" = that come=20 PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about = EM or non=20 seismic waves?

Their training guide.....

Myth:

Animals can = sense=20 earthquakes and give advance warning.

Fact:

Animals may be = able to=20 sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur = deep=20 within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary = waves=20 follow just seconds behind. =20 Animals do not make good earthquake warning = devices.

Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes From: "Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:36:29 -0800 This is why I sent that link yesterday showing the dog reacting dramatically before the floor (and everything else) moved violently from the M6.5 Nothern Cal Quake. Most of the time with camera footage, one is not always able to detect every bit of motion. So, who knows if that dog was reacting to small nearly imperceptible movement that was probably going on just prior to the obvious side to side motion that we saw. Or was the dog reacting to low frequency noises that occur in the earth's electromagnetic field just prior to an event? Don't know. There was a man in the same room with the dog and he was sitting in a chair. He reacted just as the floor motion started but by the then, the dog had already made a bee-line out of the there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAzZIH4_X-s From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Kay Wyatt Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Animals and Earthquakes I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices.

This is why I sent that link yesterday showing the dog = reacting dramatically before the floor (and everything else) moved violently from = the M6.5 Nothern Cal Quake. Most of the time with camera footage, one is not = always able to detect every bit of motion. So, who knows if that dog was = reacting to small nearly imperceptible movement that was probably going on just = prior to the obvious side to side motion that we saw. Or was the dog reacting to = low frequency noises that occur in the earth’s electromagnetic field = just prior to an event? Don’t know. There was a man in the same room = with the dog and he was sitting in a chair. He reacted just as the floor motion = started but by the then, the dog had already made a bee-line out of the there. =

http://www.youtube.= com/watch?v=3DaAzZIH4_X-s

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Kay Wyatt
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Animals and Earthquakes

I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency = Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire = Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the = training materials are available online at http://www.citizenco= rps.gov/cert/index.shtm

In = their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain = this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is = what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come = PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non = seismic waves?

Their training guide.....

Myth:

Animals can sense = earthquakes and give advance warning.

Fact:

Animals may be able to sense the first = low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the = damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals = do not make good earthquake warning devices.

Subject: Re: Animals and Earthquakes From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:59:20 -0700 A comment from me on animals as sensing devices; A comment from me on the overpopulation of this abnormal, septic, spaceship planet called earth. If animals other than humans have the ability to sense things outside our normal range of senses it simply makes common sense that that they possibly will react to stimuli that outside the normal range of human senses. It is also possible for humans with damaged senses to respond to to something outside the normal human senses simply because a damaged sensor may very possibly still be working yet no longer is it sensing what it was originally designed to sense. Someone may appear "CRAZY" simply because they respond to stimuli not sensed by the average OTHER person. But in such a case I would imagine there is some kind of measurable damage to their " the crazy one " otherwise normal senses. The sense of hearing depends upon tiny hair cells being stimulated at given frequencies. If they are damaged ( broken to a different length ) possibly one may hear Brownian motion as a steady tone which amplitude varies according to psycho-acoustic conditions. Although the stimulus is constant it may be perceived as louder or softer depending upon the state of mind. But if its Brownian motion it will be continuous. "TINNITUS???" We are very limited in our ability to sense the world around us so military and scientist invent electronic and other sensing devices to see the world like an average human can not. This is the kind of work for radar and sonar and seismology and warfare and science and entertainment. Isn't it interesting that when it boils down to science,the essence of a human is simply electro-chemical in nature in which a complicated scenario comes together to to form a soul which can only exist in the past and not in real time. Maybe tens of milliseconds in the past. I have been reading the Israeli military uses bed bugs on the border to sense infrared presence. The little devils hop about excitedly when any warm animal is close and this activity can be translated into a warning making for a relatively cheap biological sensor. ( made by GOD instead of man ) Now we can get into the argument that is something like this: IF nature made man and man made whatever, THEN nature made whatever. Only that which is impossible is unnatural. The unnatural can not happen except within the combinations and permutations of electro-chemical activities within the framework of the human mind. To get back to reality ??? It does not surprise me in the least that animals are sensitive to things the human animal can not normally perceive. But they will never react before the fact, whatever they are sensing is in the past and has already happened. It is up to us to understand with our science and imagination just what the hay is going on. If there is more than three variables do not expect such understanding to be easy. STUDY THE PAST AND BUILD FOR THE FUTURE; I think animals will never be a very good warning devices for earthquakes since they ( unlike us )will not react before the fact. The best methods seem to be looking at the history to see the future then build for the future. You can only do so much then it becomes a matter of wasting resources to chase a dream that can never be realized. How does one measure the stresses and strains within the earth ? It is those forces that will tell you when something is about to break. But even then, not exactly when. When something does break then, shout a warning to let people get off their ladders or balcony rails before the shaking starts. Possibly seconds is all the warning you need to stay alive. geoff PS ( DO NOT OVERPOPULATE THE EARTH, or we shall all be suffering ) I have seen the sciences study this area too over 50 years ago. There is not enough good land/resources to support the people who are already here at any decent standard of living. The only decent way to address this one is through the compliance of the human race to voluntarily reduce their own fertility in order to maintain a decent status quo. Otherwise you get something like the Nazi/Jew human inter-relations. If humans were spread out thinly, there would be few regional disasters taking any meaningful toll of human life. Politicians are cowards if they do not address the problem of overpopulation in a scientific/non-religious/objective way. They will suffer the wrath of the stupid powerful idiot (public) upon whose shoulders rides the smart dwarf (scientists). They say it would take seven earths for all to enjoy the quality of life in NORTH AMERICA alone. So must you reduce the world population by 6/7, and, do so without adding to human suffering. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Wyatt" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:37 PM Subject: Animals and Earthquakes I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:26:16 -0800 I can give you a few sources. As for ELF waves, there was a Stanford group studying low freq. radio waves that recorded some interesting stuff before Loma Prieta. Source: www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/91/911231Arc1006.html As for the animal behavior, see if you can find the book "When the Snakes Awake" Animals and Earthquake Prediction by Helmut Tributsch. MIT press TRIWP 0-262-70035-5. http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/13603 There have been many reports of animal coming up out of the ground. For example, in Italy bugs, snakes, rats and such have been reported "out of the ground" before large earthquakes as early as 469 B.C. In Greece before the city of Helice was destroyed in 373 B.C. animals such as rats, snakes, weasels, centipedes, worms and beetles "migrated in droves along the connecting road toward the city of Koria" (Tributsch, 1943). In recent times, one of the most publicized monitoring programs was undertaken by the Chinese government in June, 1974, when the National Earthquake Bureau issued a warning following sever small events in Liaoning Province warning of a pending event within four years. 100,000 people took part in the monitoring effort that followed and when they observed snakes and other animals near Tantung with odd behaviors in December of 1974, an earthquake warning was issued and it was followed by an event. Later well water was observed to change levels and gas bubbles were seen in lakes and rivers Geese flew into trees and dogs barked. At 10A.M. on 2/4/75 the government started evacuating people from the larger town and a 7.3 struck at 7:36p.m which would have killed many had it not been for the evacuations. Some years later however another large event struck without any warning and no noticeable change in animal behavior. I tend to believe that there is a connection and you should take notice when/if your animals start to behave abnormally. You can draw your own conclusions from this brief description above but I suggest you read the suggested book. I do have some anecdotal evidence as I had a friend that lived in Sylmar in 1971 and he had two cats that lived with him in his small trailer. For two days and nights the cats flew around the inside the trailer for "no reason." The Sylmar event was early in the A.M. of the morning of the third day. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA http://pw2.netcom.com/~shammon1/psnsj.htm From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Kay Wyatt Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Animals and Earthquakes I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices.

I can give you a few sources. As for ELF waves, = there was a Stanford group studying low freq. radio waves that recorded some = interesting stuff before Loma Prieta. Source: www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/91/911231Arc100= 6.html =

As for the animal behavior, see if you = can find the book “When the Snakes Awake” Animals and Earthquake = Prediction by Helmut Tributsch. MIT press TRIWP 0-262-70035-5. http://www.amaz= on.com/gp/bestsellers/books/13603

There have been many reports of animal = coming up out of the ground. For example, in Italy bugs, snakes, rats and such = have been reported “out of the ground” before large earthquakes as = early as 469 B.C. In Greece before the city of Helice was destroyed in 373 = B.C. animals such as rats, snakes, weasels, centipedes, worms and beetles = “migrated in droves along the connecting road toward the city of Koria” = (Tributsch, 1943). In recent times, one of the most publicized monitoring programs = was undertaken by the Chinese government in June, 1974, when the National Earthquake Bureau issued a warning following sever small events in = Liaoning Province warning of a pending event within four years. 100,000 people = took part in the monitoring effort that followed and when they observed snakes and = other animals near Tantung with odd behaviors in December of 1974, an earthquake warning was issued and it was followed by an event. Later = well water was observed to change levels and gas bubbles were seen in lakes and = rivers Geese flew into trees and dogs barked… At 10A.M. on 2/4/75 the = government started evacuating people from the larger town and a 7.3 struck at = 7:36p.m which would have killed many had it not been for the evacuations. Some = years later however another large event struck without any warning and no = noticeable change in animal behavior. I tend to believe that there is a connection and you = should take notice when/if your animals start to behave abnormally. You can = draw your own conclusions from this brief description above but I suggest you read = the suggested book. I do have some anecdotal evidence as I had a friend that lived in = Sylmar in 1971 and he had two cats that lived with him in his small trailer. = For two days and nights the cats flew around the inside the trailer = for “no reason.” The Sylmar event was early in the A.M. of the = morning of the third day.

Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, = Aptos, CA

http://pw2.netcom.com/= ~shammon1/psnsj.htm

Their training guide.....

Myth:

Animals can sense = earthquakes and give advance warning.

Fact:

Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes From: "Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:40:19 -0800 That's an excellent book and I don't think there has been any other such book released since. From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Stephen Hammond Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:26 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes I can give you a few sources. As for ELF waves, there was a Stanford group studying low freq. radio waves that recorded some interesting stuff before Loma Prieta. Source: www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/91/911231Arc1006.html As for the animal behavior, see if you can find the book "When the Snakes Awake" Animals and Earthquake Prediction by Helmut Tributsch. MIT press TRIWP 0-262-70035-5. http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/13603 There have been many reports of animal coming up out of the ground. For example, in Italy bugs, snakes, rats and such have been reported "out of the ground" before large earthquakes as early as 469 B.C. In Greece before the city of Helice was destroyed in 373 B.C. animals such as rats, snakes, weasels, centipedes, worms and beetles "migrated in droves along the connecting road toward the city of Koria" (Tributsch, 1943). In recent times, one of the most publicized monitoring programs was undertaken by the Chinese government in June, 1974, when the National Earthquake Bureau issued a warning following sever small events in Liaoning Province warning of a pending event within four years. 100,000 people took part in the monitoring effort that followed and when they observed snakes and other animals near Tantung with odd behaviors in December of 1974, an earthquake warning was issued and it was followed by an event. Later well water was observed to change levels and gas bubbles were seen in lakes and rivers Geese flew into trees and dogs barked. At 10A.M. on 2/4/75 the government started evacuating people from the larger town and a 7.3 struck at 7:36p.m which would have killed many had it not been for the evacuations. Some years later however another large event struck without any warning and no noticeable change in animal behavior. I tend to believe that there is a connection and you should take notice when/if your animals start to behave abnormally. You can draw your own conclusions from this brief description above but I suggest you read the suggested book. I do have some anecdotal evidence as I had a friend that lived in Sylmar in 1971 and he had two cats that lived with him in his small trailer. For two days and nights the cats flew around the inside the trailer for "no reason." The Sylmar event was early in the A.M. of the morning of the third day. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA http://pw2.netcom.com/~shammon1/psnsj.htm From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Kay Wyatt Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Animals and Earthquakes I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices.

That’s an excellent book and I don’t think = there has been any other such book released since…

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Stephen = Hammond
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:26 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes

There have been many reports of animal = coming up out of the ground. For example, in Italy bugs, snakes, rats and such = have been reported “out of the ground” before large earthquakes as = early as 469 B.C. In Greece before the city of Helice was destroyed in 373 B.C. = animals such as rats, snakes, weasels, centipedes, worms and beetles = “migrated in droves along the connecting road toward the city of Koria” = (Tributsch, 1943). In recent times, one of the most publicized monitoring programs was = undertaken by the Chinese government in June, 1974, when the National Earthquake = Bureau issued a warning following sever small events in Liaoning Province = warning of a pending event within four years. 100,000 people took part in the = monitoring effort that followed and when they observed snakes and other animals = near Tantung with odd behaviors in December of 1974, an earthquake = warning was issued and it was followed by an event. Later well water was observed to = change levels and gas bubbles were seen in lakes and rivers Geese flew into = trees and dogs barked… At 10A.M. on 2/4/75 the government started evacuating = people from the larger town and a 7.3 struck at 7:36p.m which would have killed many = had it not been for the evacuations. Some years later however another large = event struck without any warning and no noticeable change in animal behavior. = I tend to believe that there is a connection and you should take notice when/if = your animals start to behave abnormally. You can draw your own conclusions = from this brief description above but I suggest you read the suggested book. I do = have some anecdotal evidence as I had a friend that lived in Sylmar in 1971 = and he had two cats that lived with him in his small trailer. For two days and = nights the cats flew around the inside the trailer for “no = reason.” The Sylmar event was early in the A.M. of the morning of the third day. =

Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, = Aptos, CA

http://pw2.netcom.com/= ~shammon1/psnsj.htm

In = their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them = perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below = is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR = to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non = seismic waves?

Their training guide.....

Myth:

Animals can sense = earthquakes and give advance warning.

Fact:

Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:47:59 -0800 (PST) I think there is something else going on. The location of the video had to = be very close to the epicenter to display the amount of movement. My eye sa= w that the dog moved ~ 6 sec before the visable shaking. I would think that= being that close to the epicenter there wouldn't be surface waves. The sha= king was probably the P and S waves. I am ~ 350 km from the event and I sho= wed an abrupt P arrival. I think the dog was sensing something else. Maybe = a smaller event just prior to the main event? Maybe looking on other helico= rder sites in the area would shed some light as to whether it was ground mo= tion. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Tue, 1/12/10, Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com wrote: From: Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 12:36 PM =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AThis is why I sent that link yesterday s= howing the dog reacting=0Adramatically before the floor (and everything els= e) moved violently from the=0AM6.5 Nothern Cal Quake. Most of the time with= camera footage, one is not always=0Aable to detect every bit of motion. So= , who knows if that dog was reacting to=0Asmall nearly imperceptible moveme= nt that was probably going on just prior to=0Athe obvious side to side moti= on that we saw. Or was the dog reacting to low=0Afrequency noises that occu= r in the earth=E2=80=99s electromagnetic field just=0Aprior to an event? Do= n=E2=80=99t know. There was a man in the same room with the=0Adog and he wa= s sitting in a chair. He reacted just as the floor motion started=0Abut by = the then, the dog had already made a bee-line out of the there. =0A=0A =C2= =A0 =0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DaAzZIH4_X-s =0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0A= =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Apsn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-= l-request@............... On Behalf=0AOf Kay Wyatt =0ASent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM =0ATo: psn-l@.............. =0ASubject: Animals and Earthquakes =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A= =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AI'm not sure=0Ahow many of you are aware of the CE= RT program (Community Emergency Response=0ATeam) which was developed in 198= 5 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in=0A1985 to train ordinary citiz= ens to be first responders in a major=0Adisaster.=C2=A0 The program was lat= er adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training=0Amaterials are available online= at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 = =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AIn their=0Atraining manual they discuss various earthquak= e myths.=C2=A0 One of them=0Aperplexes me and I would love to hear from any= one who can explain this.=C2=A0=0ABelow is the material in their training m= anual.=C2=A0 My questions is what are=0Athe "first low frequency waves of a= n earthquake" that come PRIOR to=0Athe primary and secondary waves?=C2=A0 A= re they talking about EM or non seismic=0Awaves? =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 = =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ATheir=0Atraining guide..... =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 =0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A Myth: =0A =0A =0A Animals can sense earthqu= akes and=0A give advance warning. =0A =C2=A0 =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A Fact= : =0A =0A =0A Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves= =0A of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-caus= ing=0A primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind.=C2=A0 Anima= ls do not=0A make good earthquake warning devices. =0A =C2=A0 =0A =0A = =0A=0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A

I think there is something else going on. The= location of the video had to be very close to the epicenter to display the= amount of movement. My eye saw that the dog moved ~ 6 sec before the visab= le shaking. I would think that being that close to the epicenter there woul= dn't be surface waves. The shaking was probably the P and S waves. I am ~ 3= 50 km from the event and I showed an abrupt P arrival. I think the dog was = sensing something else. Maybe a smaller event just prior to the main event?= Maybe looking on other helicorder sites in the area would shed some light = as to whether it was ground motion.

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismi= cvault.com

--- On Tue, 1/12/10, Kareem Lanier from Heyjooj= oo.Com <system98765@.............> wrote:

From: Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com <system98765@he= yjoojoo.com>
Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes
To: psn-l@webtro= nics.com
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 12:36 PM

=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A= =0A=0A
=0A=0A
This is why I sent that link yesterday showing the = dog reacting=0Adramatically before the floor (and everything else) moved vi= olently from the=0AM6.5 Nothern Cal Quake. Most of the time with camera foo= tage, one is not always=0Aable to detect every bit of motion. So, who knows= if that dog was reacting to=0Asmall nearly imperceptible movement that was= probably going on just prior to=0Athe obvious side to side motion that we = saw. Or was the dog reacting to low=0Afrequency noises that occur in the ea= rth=E2=80=99s electromagnetic field just=0Aprior to an event? Don=E2=80=99t= know. There was a man in the same room with the=0Adog and he was sitting i= n a chair. He reacted just as the floor motion started=0Abut by the then, t= he dog had already made a bee-line out of the there.
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DaAzZIH4_= X-s
=0A=0A

=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
From:=0Apsn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@w= ebtronics.com] On Behalf=0AOf Kay Wyatt
=0ASent: Tuesday, = January 12, 2010 11:37 AM
=0ATo: psn-l@..............
=0ASu= bject: Animals and Earthquakes
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A= =0A

=0A=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
I'm not sure= =0Ahow many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Respo= nse=0ATeam) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Depart= ment in=0A1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major= =0Adisaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the tra= ining=0Amaterials are available online at http://www.citize= ncorps.gov/cert/index.shtm
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
In their=0Atraining manual they discuss various earthquake myths. = One of them=0Aperplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can exp= lain this. =0ABelow is the material in their training manual. My= questions is what are=0Athe "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" t= hat come PRIOR to=0Athe primary and secondary waves? Are they talking= about EM or non seismic=0Awaves?
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
Their=0Atraining guide.....
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A

=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A =0A=0A
=0A
Myth:
=0A =0A
Animals can sen= se earthquakes and=0A give advance warning.
=0A

=0A
=0A
Fact:
=0A =0A
Animals may be able to sense the firs= t low-frequency waves=0A of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth= , but the damage-causing=0A primary and secondary waves follow just second= s behind. Animals do not=0A make good earthquake warning devices. =0A

=0A
Subject: Re: Animals and Earthquakes From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:55:38 -0700 There is a new book (Nov 16, 2009) out PREDICTING THE UNPREDICTABLE; THE = TUMULTUOUS SCIENCE OF EARTHQUAKE PREDICTION by Susan Hough, Chief = Scientist, USGS, Pasadena, CA. The book is available from Amazon for = $17.96. The book is dedicated to earthquake prediction and in the book = she discusses the recorded reactions of animals and other subjects prior = to earthquakes occurring. She includes in her book several examples of = the reported actions of animals prior to earthquakes, including USGS = studies in that area. However, she also points out that when these same = animal activities were applied to other events, they were unable to = correlate the animal activities with other events. She take an in = depth look at the 1975 M 7.5 earthquake in Haicheng, China,which some = people believe was a successful earthquake prediction. The book is = worth buying and gives a great background on the many complex problems = associated with earthquake predictions which have yet to be solved. Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes From: "Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:01:12 -0800 There's a lot here Geoffrey. I agree with that there are animals who can sense (hear, see, smell, feel...) things outside our normal range of senses. Since humans generally live by sight and less by anything else, then we can certainly come to the conclusion that whatever dramatic reaction we saw the animal doing before the event was surely looked different from our very own delayed reaction. That, to me, is nothing more than an animal reacting to something it senses before my species does. As humans, we could only produce a hypothesis as to what we think is going on - but something is going on. As far as the earth being overpopulated, I guess one could surmise that but by whose standard. What standard to so measure this? Because of elbow room? Wait, don't answer that. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Geoffrey Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:59 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Animals and Earthquakes A comment from me on animals as sensing devices; A comment from me on the overpopulation of this abnormal, septic, spaceship planet called earth. If animals other than humans have the ability to sense things outside our normal range of senses it simply makes common sense that that they possibly will react to stimuli that outside the normal range of human senses. It is also possible for humans with damaged senses to respond to to something outside the normal human senses simply because a damaged sensor may very possibly still be working yet no longer is it sensing what it was originally designed to sense. Someone may appear "CRAZY" simply because they respond to stimuli not sensed by the average OTHER person. But in such a case I would imagine there is some kind of measurable damage to their " the crazy one " otherwise normal senses. The sense of hearing depends upon tiny hair cells being stimulated at given frequencies. If they are damaged ( broken to a different length ) possibly one may hear Brownian motion as a steady tone which amplitude varies according to psycho-acoustic conditions. Although the stimulus is constant it may be perceived as louder or softer depending upon the state of mind. But if its Brownian motion it will be continuous. "TINNITUS???" We are very limited in our ability to sense the world around us so military and scientist invent electronic and other sensing devices to see the world like an average human can not. This is the kind of work for radar and sonar and seismology and warfare and science and entertainment. Isn't it interesting that when it boils down to science,the essence of a human is simply electro-chemical in nature in which a complicated scenario comes together to to form a soul which can only exist in the past and not in real time. Maybe tens of milliseconds in the past. I have been reading the Israeli military uses bed bugs on the border to sense infrared presence. The little devils hop about excitedly when any warm animal is close and this activity can be translated into a warning making for a relatively cheap biological sensor. ( made by GOD instead of man ) Now we can get into the argument that is something like this: IF nature made man and man made whatever, THEN nature made whatever. Only that which is impossible is unnatural. The unnatural can not happen except within the combinations and permutations of electro-chemical activities within the framework of the human mind. To get back to reality ??? It does not surprise me in the least that animals are sensitive to things the human animal can not normally perceive. But they will never react before the fact, whatever they are sensing is in the past and has already happened. It is up to us to understand with our science and imagination just what the hay is going on. If there is more than three variables do not expect such understanding to be easy. STUDY THE PAST AND BUILD FOR THE FUTURE; I think animals will never be a very good warning devices for earthquakes since they ( unlike us )will not react before the fact. The best methods seem to be looking at the history to see the future then build for the future. You can only do so much then it becomes a matter of wasting resources to chase a dream that can never be realized. How does one measure the stresses and strains within the earth ? It is those forces that will tell you when something is about to break. But even then, not exactly when. When something does break then, shout a warning to let people get off their ladders or balcony rails before the shaking starts. Possibly seconds is all the warning you need to stay alive. geoff PS ( DO NOT OVERPOPULATE THE EARTH, or we shall all be suffering ) I have seen the sciences study this area too over 50 years ago. There is not enough good land/resources to support the people who are already here at any decent standard of living. The only decent way to address this one is through the compliance of the human race to voluntarily reduce their own fertility in order to maintain a decent status quo. Otherwise you get something like the Nazi/Jew human inter-relations. If humans were spread out thinly, there would be few regional disasters taking any meaningful toll of human life. Politicians are cowards if they do not address the problem of overpopulation in a scientific/non-religious/objective way. They will suffer the wrath of the stupid powerful idiot (public) upon whose shoulders rides the smart dwarf (scientists). They say it would take seven earths for all to enjoy the quality of life in NORTH AMERICA alone. So must you reduce the world population by 6/7, and, do so without adding to human suffering. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Wyatt" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:37 PM Subject: Animals and Earthquakes I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Animals and Earthquakes From: ahrubetz@....... Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:58:18 EST Geoff, Sorry, but your time-worn Malthusian redux is way over the top! Regards, Al In a message dated 1/12/2010 6:59:51 P.M. Central Standard Time, gmvoeth@........... writes: A comment from me on animals as sensing devices; A comment from me on the overpopulation of this abnormal, septic, spaceship planet called earth. If animals other than humans have the ability to sense things outside our normal range of senses it simply makes common sense that that they possibly will react to stimuli that outside the normal range of human senses. It is also possible for humans with damaged senses to respond to to something outside the normal human senses simply because a damaged sensor may very possibly still be working yet no longer is it sensing what it was originally designed to sense. Someone may appear "CRAZY" simply because they respond to stimuli not sensed by the average OTHER person. But in such a case I would imagine there is some kind of measurable damage to their " the crazy one " otherwise normal senses. The sense of hearing depends upon tiny hair cells being stimulated at given frequencies. If they are damaged ( broken to a different length ) possibly one may hear Brownian motion as a steady tone which amplitude varies according to psycho-acoustic conditions. Although the stimulus is constant it may be perceived as louder or softer depending upon the state of mind. But if its Brownian motion it will be continuous. "TINNITUS???" We are very limited in our ability to sense the world around us so military and scientist invent electronic and other sensing devices to see the world like an average human can not. This is the kind of work for radar and sonar and seismology and warfare and science and entertainment. Isn't it interesting that when it boils down to science,the essence of a human is simply electro-chemical in nature in which a complicated scenario comes together to to form a soul which can only exist in the past and not in real time. Maybe tens of milliseconds in the past. I have been reading the Israeli military uses bed bugs on the border to sense infrared presence. The little devils hop about excitedly when any warm animal is close and this activity can be translated into a warning making for a relatively cheap biological sensor. ( made by GOD instead of man ) Now we can get into the argument that is something like this: IF nature made man and man made whatever, THEN nature made whatever. Only that which is impossible is unnatural. The unnatural can not happen except within the combinations and permutations of electro-chemical activities within the framework of the human mind. To get back to reality ??? It does not surprise me in the least that animals are sensitive to things the human animal can not normally perceive. But they will never react before the fact, whatever they are sensing is in the past and has already happened. It is up to us to understand with our science and imagination just what the hay is going on. If there is more than three variables do not expect such understanding to be easy. STUDY THE PAST AND BUILD FOR THE FUTURE; I think animals will never be a very good warning devices for earthquakes since they ( unlike us )will not react before the fact. The best methods seem to be looking at the history to see the future then build for the future. You can only do so much then it becomes a matter of wasting resources to chase a dream that can never be realized. How does one measure the stresses and strains within the earth ? It is those forces that will tell you when something is about to break. But even then, not exactly when. When something does break then, shout a warning to let people get off their ladders or balcony rails before the shaking starts. Possibly seconds is all the warning you need to stay alive. geoff PS ( DO NOT OVERPOPULATE THE EARTH, or we shall all be suffering ) I have seen the sciences study this area too over 50 years ago. There is not enough good land/resources to support the people who are already here at any decent standard of living. The only decent way to address this one is through the compliance of the human race to voluntarily reduce their own fertility in order to maintain a decent status quo. Otherwise you get something like the Nazi/Jew human inter-relations. If humans were spread out thinly, there would be few regional disasters taking any meaningful toll of human life. Politicians are cowards if they do not address the problem of overpopulation in a scientific/non-religious/objective way. They will suffer the wrath of the stupid powerful idiot (public) upon whose shoulders rides the smart dwarf (scientists). They say it would take seven earths for all to enjoy the quality of life in NORTH AMERICA alone. So must you reduce the world population by 6/7, and, do so without adding to human suffering. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Wyatt" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:37 PM Subject: Animals and Earthquakes I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Geoff,

Sorry, but your time-worn Malthusian redux is= =20 way over the top!

Regards,

Al

In a message dated 1/12/2010 6:59:51 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 gmvoeth@........... writes:

A=20 comment from me on animals as sensing devices;
A comment from me on= the=20 overpopulation of this
abnormal, septic, spaceship planet called=20 earth.

If animals other than humans have the ability
to sense= things=20 outside our normal range of senses
it simply makes common sense that= that=20 they possibly
will react to stimuli that outside the normal
range= of=20 human senses.

It is also possible for humans with damaged
sens= es to=20 respond to to something outside
the normal human senses simply becaus= e
a=20 damaged sensor may very possibly still be working
yet no longer is it= =20 sensing what it was originally
designed to sense. Someone may appear= =20 "CRAZY"
simply because they respond to stimuli not
sensed by the= average=20 OTHER person. But in such a case
I would imagine there is some kind= of=20 measurable
damage to their " the crazy one " otherwise normal=20 senses.

The sense of hearing depends upon tiny
hair cells bein= g=20 stimulated at given frequencies.
If they are damaged ( broken to a=20 different length )
possibly one may hear Brownian motion as a steady= =20 tone
which amplitude varies according to psycho-acoustic=20 conditions.
Although the stimulus is constant it may be perceived
= as=20 louder or softer depending upon the state of mind.
But if its Brownia= n=20 motion it will be continuous.
"TINNITUS???"

We are very limite= d in=20 our ability to sense the
world around us so military and=20 scientist
invent electronic and other sensing
devices to see the= world=20 like an average human can not.

This is the kind of work for radar= and=20 sonar and seismology
and warfare and science and=20 entertainment.

Isn't it interesting that when it boils
down to= =20 science,the essence of a human
is simply electro-chemical in nature= in=20 which
a complicated scenario comes together to
to form a soul whic= h can=20 only exist in the past
and not in real time. Maybe tens of millisecon= ds in=20 the
past.

I have been reading the Israeli military uses bed=20 bugs
on the border to sense infrared presence. The little devils
h= op=20 about excitedly when any warm animal is close
and this activity can= be=20 translated into a warning
making for a relatively cheap biological=20 sensor.
( made by GOD instead of man )

Now we can get into the= =20 argument that is
something like this:
IF nature made man and man= made=20 whatever,
THEN nature made whatever.
Only that which is impossible= is=20 unnatural.
The unnatural can not happen except
within the combinat= ions=20 and permutations
of electro-chemical activities within
the framewo= rk of=20 the human mind.

To get back to reality ???
It does not surpris= e me=20 in the least
that animals are sensitive to things the human animal=20 can
not normally perceive. But they will never
react before the fa= ct,=20 whatever they are
sensing is in the past and has already happened.It is=20 up to us to understand with our science
and imagination just what the= hay=20 is going on.
If there is more than three variables do not expect
s= uch=20 understanding to be easy.

STUDY THE PAST AND BUILD FOR THE FUTURE= ;
I=20 think animals will never be a very good
warning devices for earthquak= es=20 since they
( unlike us )will not react before the fact.
The best= methods=20 seem to be looking at the history
to see the future then build for th= e=20 future.
You can only do so much then it becomes a
matter of wastin= g=20 resources to chase a dream
that can never be realized.
How does on= e=20 measure the stresses and strains
within the earth ? It is those force= s that=20 will tell
you when something is about to break.
But even then, not= =20 exactly when.
When something does break then, shout a warning
to= let=20 people get off their ladders
or balcony rails before the shaking=20 starts.
Possibly seconds is all the warning you need to stay=20 alive.

geoff

PS ( DO NOT OVERPOPULATE THE EARTH, or we sha= ll all=20 be suffering )
I have seen the sciences study this area too over 50= years=20 ago.
There is not enough good land/resources to support the people wh= o are=20 already here
at any decent standard of living. The only decent way to= =20 address this one
is through the compliance of the human race to volun= tarily=20 reduce their own
fertility in order to maintain a decent status=20 quo.
Otherwise you get something like the Nazi/Jew human=20 inter-relations.
If humans were spread out thinly, there would be few= =20 regional disasters
taking any meaningful toll of human=20 life.

Politicians are cowards if they do not address the problem= of=20 overpopulation
in a scientific/non-religious/objective way.
They= will=20 suffer the wrath of the stupid powerful idiot (public) upon whose=20 shoulders
rides the smart dwarf (scientists).

They say it woul= d take=20 seven earths for all to enjoy the quality
of life in NORTH AMERICA al= one.=20 So must you
reduce the world population by 6/7, and, do so
without= =20 adding to human suffering.

----- Original Message -----= =20
From: "Kay Wyatt" <kwyatt@.............>
To:=20 <psn-l@..............>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:37=20 PM
Subject: Animals and Earthquakes

I'm not sure how= many of=20 you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) wh= ich=20 was developed in 1985 by the
Los Angeles City Fire Department in 198= 5 to=20 train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. = ; The=20 program was
later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials= are=20 available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm

I= n=20 their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One= of them=20 perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who
can explain=20 this. Below is the material in their training manual. My que= stions=20 is what are the "first low frequency waves of an
earthquake" that co= me=20 PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about= EM or=20 non seismic waves?

Their training guide.....

= =20 Myth:
   Animals can sense earthquakes and gi= ve=20 advance warning.

Fact:
=20    Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves= of an=20 earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the
damage-causing= =20 primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do= not=20 make good earthquake warning=20 devices.

____________________________________________= ______________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email=20 PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first lin= e=20 only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mo= re=20 information.
Subject: Re: Animals and Earthquakes From: Dick Habegger amej@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:26:55 -0800 Hi All, I think the "Myth" of 1985 is a government cop-out. As part of the HAM "Seismic Precursor Net" in the Los Angeles area at that time, we monitored well water levels, various monitoring instruments and local newspaper "Dog & Cat Reports". This was due to Jim Berkland's > http://www.syzygyjob.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=27 investigations into the dog and cat reports. Granted, we did not prove any method for seismic activity, but since that time animals have had some very interesting behaviors before an earthquake. One of our good predictions was the Whittier earthquake. We had our net the night before and there were some changes in the readings (I cannot remember the exact measurements). So, we forewarned ourselves that an event would occur within the next 24 hours. I secured all I could, and living in Anaheim (15 to 20 miles from Whittier, I was ready. It happened within 12 hours! Jim Berkland has recently suggested that each person and animal has a magnetic node near their brain and eyes. The electrical "precursor" activity excites this node, causing a reaction; piezo electrical effect? Has strength is in the Full and New Moon phases. We are just three days away from New Moon. Again, is this a myth? I have seen that USGS has modified their stance on seismic activity and openly warned Southern California to be ready. San Bernardino County has taken this warning seriously. I am drifting away from the main discussion, however there are many reasons to discount a myth. Dick Habegger Phelan, CA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kay Wyatt" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:37 PM > Subject: Animals and Earthquakes > > > > I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community > Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the > Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be > first responders in a major disaster. The program was > later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online > at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm > > In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them > perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who > can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My > questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an > earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they > talking about EM or non seismic waves? > > Their training guide..... > > Myth: > Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. > > > > Fact: > Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an > earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the > damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. > Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:27:47 -0800 (PST) More thoughts on Mr Dog. I did a little math. If the the P wave travels at 5-8 km/sec then if we use= 7 km/sec and the dog moved ~ 6 sec before the noticeable movement (lets as= sume the P wave). This would relate to ~ 42 km. Ferndale ( as an example of= a close town) is about 37 km from the epicenter but the the hypo center is= @ a depth of 16 km. This would equal ~ 39 km travel distance. Close to 42 = km. I don't know the travel speed of electro magnet waves but I would assum= e they would be near the speed of light. I'm not sure in the earth. If one = were to assume that it was instantaneous then maybe the dog was sensing som= e sort of electro magnet waves generated by the initiation of the event. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Tue, 1/12/10, Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com wrote: From: Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 12:36 PM =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AThis is why I sent that link yesterday s= howing the dog reacting=0Adramatically before the floor (and everything els= e) moved violently from the=0AM6.5 Nothern Cal Quake. Most of the time with= camera footage, one is not always=0Aable to detect every bit of motion. So= , who knows if that dog was reacting to=0Asmall nearly imperceptible moveme= nt that was probably going on just prior to=0Athe obvious side to side moti= on that we saw. Or was the dog reacting to low=0Afrequency noises that occu= r in the earth=E2=80=99s electromagnetic field just=0Aprior to an event? Do= n=E2=80=99t know. There was a man in the same room with the=0Adog and he wa= s sitting in a chair. He reacted just as the floor motion started=0Abut by = the then, the dog had already made a bee-line out of the there. =0A=0A =C2= =A0 =0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DaAzZIH4_X-s =0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0A= =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Apsn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-= l-request@............... On Behalf=0AOf Kay Wyatt =0ASent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM =0ATo: psn-l@.............. =0ASubject: Animals and Earthquakes =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A= =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AI'm not sure=0Ahow many of you are aware of the CE= RT program (Community Emergency Response=0ATeam) which was developed in 198= 5 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in=0A1985 to train ordinary citiz= ens to be first responders in a major=0Adisaster.=C2=A0 The program was lat= er adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training=0Amaterials are available online= at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 = =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AIn their=0Atraining manual they discuss various earthquak= e myths.=C2=A0 One of them=0Aperplexes me and I would love to hear from any= one who can explain this.=C2=A0=0ABelow is the material in their training m= anual.=C2=A0 My questions is what are=0Athe "first low frequency waves of a= n earthquake" that come PRIOR to=0Athe primary and secondary waves?=C2=A0 A= re they talking about EM or non seismic=0Awaves? =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 = =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ATheir=0Atraining guide..... =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 =0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A Myth: =0A =0A =0A Animals can sense earthqu= akes and=0A give advance warning. =0A =C2=A0 =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A Fact= : =0A =0A =0A Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves= =0A of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-caus= ing=0A primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind.=C2=A0 Anima= ls do not=0A make good earthquake warning devices. =0A =C2=A0 =0A =0A = =0A=0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A
More thoughts on Mr Dog.
I did a little ma= th. If the the P wave travels at 5-8 km/sec then if we use 7 km/sec and the= dog moved ~ 6 sec before the noticeable movement (lets assume the P wave).= This would relate to ~ 42 km. Ferndale ( as an example of a close town) is= about 37 km from the epicenter but the the hypo center is @ a depth of 16 = km. This would equal ~ 39 km travel distance. Close to 42 km. I don't know = the travel speed of electro magnet waves but I would assume they would be n= ear the speed of light. I'm not sure in the earth. If one were to assume th= at it was instantaneous then maybe the dog was sensing some sort of electro= magnet waves generated by the initiation of the event.

Regards
B= arry

From: Kareem = Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com <system98765@.............>
Subject: RE:= Animals and Earthquakes
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Tuesday, Janu= ary 12, 2010, 12:36 PM

=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A
This is why I sent that li= nk yesterday showing the dog reacting=0Adramatically before the floor (and = everything else) moved violently from the=0AM6.5 Nothern Cal Quake. Most of= the time with camera footage, one is not always=0Aable to detect every bit= of motion. So, who knows if that dog was reacting to=0Asmall nearly imperc= eptible movement that was probably going on just prior to=0Athe obvious sid= e to side motion that we saw. Or was the dog reacting to low=0Afrequency no= ises that occur in the earth=E2=80=99s electromagnetic field just=0Aprior t= o an event? Don=E2=80=99t know. There was a man in the same room with the= =0Adog and he was sitting in a chair. He reacted just as the floor motion s= tarted=0Abut by the then, the dog had already made a bee-line out of the th= ere.
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
http://www.you= tube.com/watch?v=3DaAzZIH4_X-s
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
<= /p> =0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
= From:=0Apsn-l-request@............ com [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf=0AOf Kay Wyatt=0ASent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM
=0ATo: psn-l= @..............
=0ASubject: Animals and Earthquakes
= =0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
I'm not sure=0Ahow many of you are aware of the CERT program = (Community Emergency Response=0ATeam) which was developed in 1985 by the Lo= s Angeles City Fire Department in=0A1985 to train ordinary citizens to be f= irst responders in a major=0Adisaster. The program was later adopted = by FEMA (1993) and the training=0Amaterials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm
=0A=0A=
=0A=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A=0A=
=0A=0A
In their=0Atraining manual they discuss vario= us earthquake myths. One of them=0Aperplexes me and I would love to h= ear from anyone who can explain this. =0ABelow is the material in thei= r training manual. My questions is what are=0Athe "first low frequenc= y waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to=0Athe primary and secondary wa= ves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic=0Awaves?
=0A= =0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A= =0A
=0A=0A
Their=0Atraining guide.....
=0A= =0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A= =0A
=0A=0A=0A =0A= =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A
= Fact:
=0A =0A =0A
=0A
Myt= h:
=0A =0A
Animals can sense earthquakes and=0A give advance warning.
= =0A

=0A
=0A
Animals may b= e able to sense the first low-frequency waves=0A of an earthquake that occ= ur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing=0A primary and secondary = waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not=0A make good earthq= uake warning devices.
=0A

=0A =0A
=0A=0A

=0A= =0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A =0A=0A
Subject: Haiti aftershock pattern From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 04:37:02 +0000 Hi all, I have been checking the aftershock pattern of the Haiti earthquakes and I am seeing clues to a other strong earthquake in that area. It might come from a new fault, or from the current fault that did break yesterday. I am exespecting a earthquake of magnitude Mw6.0 - Mw6.9, but no larger than that. This area has been dormant for a long time, so there is a lot of tension in the fault lines nearby to the epicenter of the Mw7.2 earthquake. I expect the earthquake to happen within five days or so. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Animal warning From: "Randy Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 08:11:40 -0600 Hi All, I remember when I lived in Alaska and became introduced to earthquakes. = Several of us would talk about how we never seemed to be awakened by a = quake. It seemed we always would wake up and then the shaking would = begin. I don't recall any such feeling for awake time quakes but while = sleeping there seemed to be something early enough to feel awake first. = It wasn't a special feeling like here comes a quake but clearly awake = enough to be aware of waking first. Has anyone else experienced = something like that? I've always attibuted it to the P wave. It would = have been fun to have a seismograph back then to correlate timing.=20 Randy
Hi All,

I remember when I lived in Alaska and = became=20 introduced to earthquakes.  Several of us would talk about how = we=20 never seemed to be awakened by a quake. It seemed we always would = wake up=20 and then the shaking would begin. I don't recall any such feeling = for=20 awake time quakes but while sleeping there seemed to be something early = enough=20 to feel awake first. It wasn't a special feeling like here comes a = quake=20 but clearly awake enough to be aware of waking first. Has anyone=20 else experienced something like that? I've always = attibuted it=20 to the P wave. It would have been fun to have a seismograph back = then to=20 correlate timing.

Randy
Subject: Request for Contact From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:09:25 -0600 Roger Sparks Ellensburg, WA....Please contact me privately at gpayton@............. . I suspect it was you that did the "Inverse Filtering" on my Haiti JPZ posting. (I could be wrong.) I am VERY new to all this and not familiar with this process and would love learn more about the How's and Why's. Thank you, Gerald (Jerry) Payton
Roger Sparks Ellensburg, WA....Please contact me = privately=20 at gpayton@.............=20 ..

I suspect it was you that did the "Inverse Filtering" on my = Haiti JPZ=20 posting. (I could be wrong.) I am VERY new to all = this and=20 not familiar with this process and would love learn more about the How's = and=20 Why's.

Thank you,

Gerald (Jerry) Payton
Subject: Re: Animal warning From: Canie canie@........... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:20:53 -0800 That happened to me back in the day - it was the 1971 Sylmar, CA Quake - I lived in Dana Point - woke up just before it struck - (and I am not a morning person!) -

Unfortunately - there are so few large quakes it's difficult to have any hypotheses tested with any type of frequency.. or maybe I should say fortunately..

Canie

At 06:11 AM 1/13/2010, you wrote:

Hi All,

I remember when I lived in Alaska and became introduced to earthquakes. Several of us would talk about how we never seemed to be awakened by a quake. It seemed we always would wake up and then the shaking would begin. I don't recall any such feeling for awake time quakes but while sleeping there seemed to be something early enough to feel awake first. It wasn't a special feeling like here comes a quake but clearly awake enough to be aware of waking first. Has anyone else experienced something like that? I've always attibuted it to the P wave. It would have been fun to have a seismograph back then to correlate timing.

Randy
Subject: Re: Animal warning From: "JD Cooley" jdcooley@....... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:36:28 -0800 This happens to me also. I was born and raised in Southern California = and have spent most of my 65 years here in SoCal. I often (with a large = quake felt where I live) wake up and wonder why I woke up all of a = sudden. After a few seconds the shaking begins! JD Cooley San Marcos, CA K6LKW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Randy Pratt=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:11 AM Subject: Animal warning Hi All, I remember when I lived in Alaska and became introduced to = earthquakes. Several of us would talk about how we never seemed to be = awakened by a quake. It seemed we always would wake up and then the = shaking would begin. I don't recall any such feeling for awake time = quakes but while sleeping there seemed to be something early enough to = feel awake first. It wasn't a special feeling like here comes a quake = but clearly awake enough to be aware of waking first. Has anyone else = experienced something like that? I've always attibuted it to the P = wave. It would have been fun to have a seismograph back then to = correlate timing.=20 Randy
This happens to me also. I = was born=20 and raised in Southern California and have spent most of my 65 years = here in=20 SoCal. I often (with a large quake felt where I live) wake up and = wonder=20 why I woke up all of a sudden. After a few seconds the shaking=20 begins!

JD Cooley

San Marcos, CA

K6LKW

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Randy=20 Pratt

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Wednesday, January 13, = 2010 6:11=20 AM

Subject: Animal warning

Hi All,

I remember when I lived in Alaska and = became=20 introduced to earthquakes.  Several of us would talk about = how we=20 never seemed to be awakened by a quake. It seemed we always = would wake=20 up and then the shaking would begin. I don't recall any such = feeling for=20 awake time quakes but while sleeping there seemed to be something = early enough=20 to feel awake first. It wasn't a special feeling like here comes = a quake=20 but clearly awake enough to be aware of waking first. Has anyone = else experienced something like that? I've always = attibuted it=20 to the P wave. It would have been fun to have a seismograph back = then to=20 correlate timing.

Randy

Subject: Re: Animal warning From: Kevin Brunt k.brunt@......... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 17:44:52 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) The way this discussion is going, we're going to get an outbreak of amateur seismologists connecting themselves up to electroencephalographs, so that they can correlate the interruption of sleep witn the seismic record. :) On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:36:28 -0800 JD Cooley wrote: > This happens to me also. I was born and raised in Southern California and > have spent most of my 65 years here in SoCal. I often (with a large quake > felt where I live) wake up and wonder why I woke up all of a sudden. After a > few seconds the shaking begins! > > JD Cooley > San Marcos, CA > K6LKW > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Randy Pratt > To: psn-l@.............. > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:11 AM > Subject: Animal warning > > > Hi All, > > I remember when I lived in Alaska and became introduced to earthquakes. Several of us would talk about how we never seemed to be awakened by a quake. It seemed we always would wake up and then the shaking would begin. I don't recall any such feeling for awake time quakes but while sleeping there seemed to be something early enough to feel awake first. It wasn't a special feeling like here comes a quake but clearly awake enough to be aware of waking first. Has anyone else experienced something like that? I've always attibuted it to the P wave. It would have been fun to have a seismograph back then to correlate timing. > > Randy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Va. well reacts to Haiti quake From: rg richg_1998@......... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:50:18 -0800 (PST) http://weblogs.marylandweather.com/2010/01/va_well_reacts_to_haiti_quake.html Rich __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Animal warning From: Canie canie@........... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:04:43 -0800 Unfortunately, there's just not enough time between the waking up and the shaking to do anything! LOL! Part of it is wondering 'now why did I wake up?' - then the answer comes.. too late now! Canie At 09:44 AM 1/13/2010, you wrote: >The way this discussion is going, we're going to get an outbreak of amateur >seismologists connecting themselves up to electroencephalographs, so >that they >can correlate the interruption of sleep witn the seismic record. :) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Animal warning From: Kevin Brunt k.brunt@......... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:24:43 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Ah, but what you do is to routinely connect yourself up to the EEG every night, in the same way that the seismic sensors are being recorded continually. Then when the quake hits, you can see from the change in the EEG record when you woke up. Obviously, this needs a modicum of support in WinQuake and the PSN event file format. On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:04:43 -0800 Canie wrote: > Unfortunately, there's just not enough time between the waking up and > the shaking to do anything! LOL! Part of it is wondering 'now why > did I wake up?' - then the answer comes.. too late now! > > Canie > > At 09:44 AM 1/13/2010, you wrote: > > >The way this discussion is going, we're going to get an outbreak of amateur > >seismologists connecting themselves up to electroencephalographs, so > >that they > >can correlate the interruption of sleep witn the seismic record. :) > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Interesting Article From: "JD Cooley" jdcooley@....... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 13:36:50 -0800 Here is an interesting and informative news article about the Haiti = earthquake. http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100113/wl_time/08599195328400 JD=20

Here is an interesting and = informative news=20 article about the Haiti earthquake.

htt= p://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100113/wl_time/08599195328400

Subject: Earthquakes in unlikely places. From: "JD Cooley" jdcooley@....... Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 06:10:58 -0800 Earthquakes in unlikely places (Newsweek). http://photo.newsweek.com/2010/1/haitian-and-other-earthquakes-in-unlikel= y-places.html JD

Earthquakes in unlikely places=20 (Newsweek).

http://photo.newsweek.com/2010/1/haitian-and-other= -earthquakes-in-unlikely-places.html

Subject: RE: Earthquakes in unlikely places. From: "Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:37:31 -0800 Interesting in article. I suppose that means that transform plate boundaries (as well as divergent and convergent) are everywhere? Because megaquakes occur in one or all of these areas and not just anywhere, right? For instance, I moved from the bay area to the Elk Grove area which is about ten miles from Sacramento, California. I don't know of any mapped faults that run through Sacramento. I know of many that are lying under the surrounding mountains in addition to some blind faults but it seems that I am a bit removed from any direct blow of an earthquake. From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of JD Cooley Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:11 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Earthquakes in unlikely places. Earthquakes in unlikely places (Newsweek). http://photo.newsweek.com/2010/1/haitian-and-other-earthquakes-in-unlikely-p laces.html JD

Interesting in article.

I suppose that means that transform plate boundaries (as = well as divergent and convergent) are everywhere? Because megaquakes occur in = one or all of these areas and not just anywhere, right?

For instance, I moved from the bay area to the Elk Grove = area which is about ten miles from Sacramento, California. I don’t know = of any mapped faults that run through Sacramento. I know of many that are lying = under the surrounding mountains in addition to some blind faults but it seems = that I am a bit removed from any direct blow of an earthquake. =

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of JD Cooley
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:11 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Earthquakes in unlikely places.

Earthquakes in unlikely places (Newsweek).

http://photo.newsweek.com/2010/1/haitian-and-other= -earthquakes-in-unlikely-places.html

Subject: NY TIMES From: "Edward Ianni" edwianni1@........... Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:46:01 +0000 ARTICLE IN THE NY TIMES Expecting the Big One=20 !By SIMON WINCHESTER Published: January 14, 2010=20 THOUGH it can offer scant comfort to the victims of the earthquake in = Haiti, seismology is making some slight progress in its search for the = holy grail of being able to predict dreadful events like that on = Tuesday. New studies into ultra-slow-motion events deep underground = called nonvolcanic tremors are showing vague but promising signs that = the same kind of subterranean danger signals that allow us today to = forecast when a volcano is about to erupt may one day offer some warning = of the hitherto unpredictable nucleation - the explosive beginning - of = an earthquake.=20 Times Topics: EarthquakesThe most interesting studies are those that are = proceeding, slowly and expensively, in Parkfield, Calif. (as it happens, = just a little north of the road crossing where James Dean was killed in = a traffic accident nearly 55 years ago). A deep hole has been drilled = into the countryside there, directly into the San Andreas fault, which = runs for 800 miles along the junction between the North American and = Pacific tectonic plates.=20 The academic and government researchers who run the drilling program = seek to find out what happens at the precise point of contact between = two plates. It now appears highly likely that the very low impact, but = still measurable, nonvolcanic tremors that the researchers have detected = in boreholes deep beneath the San Andreas are in some way associated = with the destructive earthquakes that occur at shallower depths above = them. What the scientists would still like to determine is whether it = might be possible to discern a nonvolcanic tremor's signature in the = deep crust some useful time before a major earthquake happens far above. = This is highly relevant to the disaster in Haiti because the = Enriquillo-Plantain Garden fault, the tectonic culprit behind Tuesday's = earthquake, shares many similarities with the San Andreas: it is a = strike-slip fault of about half the length (it runs from the Dominican = Republic to Jamaica), it separates two plates (the North American and = the Caribbean), for most of its length it is simultaneously locked solid = and under severe stress, and it shears substantially every century or = so. (The last time was in 1907, in Jamaica; scientists have long warned = of a catastrophe - one day - involving Port-au-Prince.)=20 It is highly likely that the low-impact, nonvolcanic tremors measured in = the San Andreas happen in the Caribbean also. If a real correlation = between these tremors and earthquakes can be found, then science will = turn out to be truly on to something. Such a relationship has not yet = been discovered. But the tremors do seem to have some unusual bellwether = characteristics: there seems to be a correlation, for instance, between = their occurrence and such external phenomena as the tides and the phases = of the Moon. A link to movements within the Earth's crust is at least a = further possibility - and that is something that could not have been = said five years ago. Hence the faintest glimmer of hope for progress. But then what? If the geophysicists at the University of California at = Berkeley, the United States Geological Survey, the California Institute = of Technology and the Scripps Research Institute are convinced of a = correlation, and then one day detect with their deeply buried devices a = sudden swarm of nonvolcanic tremors, would they call the mayor of San = Francisco or Los Angeles and issue a warning? And would the mayors then = order a mass evacuation? And if they did, what if the scientists turned = out to be wrong?=20 These are questions well worth asking - and asking even more stridently = of a place that is somewhat less sophisticated than California. If a = similar swarm of data is noticed in the Enriquillo-Plantain Garden = fault, would geologists try to warn the citizens of a city like = Port-au-Prince? And even if the forecasts were right, would such a = warning save lives, or would it set off panics more lethal than the = earthquake itself? The branch of seismology that deals with prediction is undoubtedly in a = slightly better place than it was half a decade ago. But new questions = arise with every step toward the grail, and the answers come too slowly = to bring true comfort to anyone today, least of all the unfortunate = people of Haiti. Simon Winchester is the author of "A Crack in the Edge of the World: = America and the Great California Earthquake of 1906" and the forthcoming = "Atlantic: A Biography of the Ocean."=20

ARTICLE IN THE NY TIMES

Expecting the Big One

!By SIMON WINCHESTER

Published: January 14, 2010

THOUGH it can offer scant comfort to the victims of the earthquake in = Haiti,=20 seismology is making some slight progress in its search for the holy = grail of=20 being able to predict dreadful events like that on Tuesday. New studies = into=20 ultra-slow-motion events deep underground called nonvolcanic tremors are = showing=20 vague but promising signs that the same kind of subterranean danger = signals that=20 allow us today to forecast when a volcano is about to erupt may one day = offer=20 some warning of the hitherto unpredictable nucleation =97 the explosive = beginning=20 =97 of an earthquake.

Times Topics: EarthquakesThe most interesting studies are those that = are=20 proceeding, slowly and expensively, in Parkfield, Calif. (as it happens, = just a=20 little north of the road crossing where James Dean was killed in a = traffic=20 accident nearly 55 years ago). A deep hole has been drilled into the = countryside=20 there, directly into the San Andreas fault, which runs for 800 miles = along the=20 junction between the North American and Pacific tectonic plates.

The academic and government researchers who run the drilling program = seek to=20 find out what happens at the precise point of contact between two = plates. It now=20 appears highly likely that the very low impact, but still measurable,=20 nonvolcanic tremors that the researchers have detected in boreholes deep = beneath=20 the San Andreas are in some way associated with the destructive = earthquakes that=20 occur at shallower depths above them. What the scientists would still = like to=20 determine is whether it might be possible to discern a nonvolcanic = tremor=92s=20 signature in the deep crust some useful time before a major earthquake = happens=20 far above.

This is highly relevant to the disaster in Haiti because the=20 Enriquillo-Plantain Garden fault, the tectonic culprit behind = Tuesday=92s=20 earthquake, shares many similarities with the San Andreas: it is a = strike-slip=20 fault of about half the length (it runs from the Dominican Republic to = Jamaica),=20 it separates two plates (the North American and the Caribbean), for most = of its=20 length it is simultaneously locked solid and under severe stress, and it = shears=20 substantially every century or so. (The last time was in 1907, in = Jamaica;=20 scientists have long warned of a catastrophe =97 one day =97 involving=20 Port-au-Prince.)

It is highly likely that the low-impact, nonvolcanic tremors measured = in the=20 San Andreas happen in the Caribbean also. If a real correlation between = these=20 tremors and earthquakes can be found, then science will turn out to be = truly on=20 to something. Such a relationship has not yet been discovered. But the = tremors=20 do seem to have some unusual bellwether characteristics: there seems to = be a=20 correlation, for instance, between their occurrence and such external = phenomena=20 as the tides and the phases of the Moon. A link to movements within the = Earth=92s=20 crust is at least a further possibility =97 and that is something that = could not=20 have been said five years ago. Hence the faintest glimmer of hope for=20 progress.

But then what? If the geophysicists at the University of California = at=20 Berkeley, the United States Geological Survey, the California Institute = of=20 Technology and the Scripps Research Institute are convinced of a = correlation,=20 and then one day detect with their deeply buried devices a sudden swarm = of=20 nonvolcanic tremors, would they call the mayor of San Francisco or Los = Angeles=20 and issue a warning? And would the mayors then order a mass evacuation? = And if=20 they did, what if the scientists turned out to be wrong?

These are questions well worth asking =97 and asking even more = stridently of a=20 place that is somewhat less sophisticated than California. If a similar = swarm of=20 data is noticed in the Enriquillo-Plantain Garden fault, would = geologists try to=20 warn the citizens of a city like Port-au-Prince? And even if the = forecasts were=20 right, would such a warning save lives, or would it set off panics more = lethal=20 than the earthquake itself?

The branch of seismology that deals with prediction is undoubtedly in = a=20 slightly better place than it was half a decade ago. But new questions = arise=20 with every step toward the grail, and the answers come too slowly to = bring true=20 comfort to anyone today, least of all the unfortunate people of = Haiti.

Simon Winchester is the author of "A Crack in the Edge of the World: = America=20 and the Great California Earthquake of 1906" and the forthcoming = "Atlantic: A=20 Biography of the Ocean."

Subject: Re: NY TIMES From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 05:35:23 -0800 (PST) Simon Winchester also wrote "Krakatoa" which I'm reading now with enjoyment= . Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Edward Ianni wrote: From: Edward Ianni Subject: NY TIMES To: psn-l@.............. Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 1:46 AM =0A=0A =0A =0A=0AARTICLE IN THE NY TIMES=0A=C2=A0=0A=0AExpecting the Big On= e =0A!By SIMON WINCHESTER=0APublished: January 14, 2010 =0ATHOUGH it can of= fer scant comfort to the victims of the earthquake in Haiti, =0Aseismology = is making some slight progress in its search for the holy grail of =0Abeing= able to predict dreadful events like that on Tuesday. New studies into =0A= ultra-slow-motion events deep underground called nonvolcanic tremors are sh= owing =0Avague but promising signs that the same kind of subterranean dange= r signals that =0Aallow us today to forecast when a volcano is about to eru= pt may one day offer =0Asome warning of the hitherto unpredictable nucleati= on =E2=80=94 the explosive beginning =0A=E2=80=94 of an earthquake. =0ATime= s Topics: EarthquakesThe most interesting studies are those that are =0Apro= ceeding, slowly and expensively, in Parkfield, Calif. (as it happens, just = a =0Alittle north of the road crossing where James Dean was killed in a tra= ffic =0Aaccident nearly 55 years ago). A deep hole has been drilled into th= e countryside =0Athere, directly into the San Andreas fault, which runs for= 800 miles along the =0Ajunction between the North American and Pacific tec= tonic plates. =0AThe academic and government researchers who run the drilli= ng program seek to =0Afind out what happens at the precise point of contact= between two plates. It now =0Aappears highly likely that the very low impa= ct, but still measurable, =0Anonvolcanic tremors that the researchers have = detected in boreholes deep beneath =0Athe San Andreas are in some way assoc= iated with the destructive earthquakes that =0Aoccur at shallower depths ab= ove them. What the scientists would still like to =0Adetermine is whether i= t might be possible to discern a nonvolcanic tremor=E2=80=99s =0Asignature = in the deep crust some useful time before a major earthquake happens =0Afar= above. =0AThis is highly relevant to the disaster in Haiti because the =0A= Enriquillo-Plantain Garden fault, the tectonic culprit behind Tuesday=E2=80= =99s =0Aearthquake, shares many similarities with the San Andreas: it is a = strike-slip =0Afault of about half the length (it runs from the Dominican R= epublic to Jamaica), =0Ait separates two plates (the North American and the= Caribbean), for most of its =0Alength it is simultaneously locked solid an= d under severe stress, and it shears =0Asubstantially every century or so. = (The last time was in 1907, in Jamaica; =0Ascientists have long warned of a= catastrophe =E2=80=94 one day =E2=80=94 involving =0APort-au-Prince.) =0AI= t is highly likely that the low-impact, nonvolcanic tremors measured in the= =0ASan Andreas happen in the Caribbean also. If a real correlation between= these =0Atremors and earthquakes can be found, then science will turn out = to be truly on =0Ato something. Such a relationship has not yet been discov= ered. But the tremors =0Ado seem to have some unusual bellwether characteri= stics: there seems to be a =0Acorrelation, for instance, between their occu= rrence and such external phenomena =0Aas the tides and the phases of the Mo= on. A link to movements within the Earth=E2=80=99s =0Acrust is at least a f= urther possibility =E2=80=94 and that is something that could not =0Ahave b= een said five years ago. Hence the faintest glimmer of hope for =0Aprogress= ..=0ABut then what? If the geophysicists at the University of California at = =0ABerkeley, the United States Geological Survey, the California Institute = of =0ATechnology and the Scripps Research Institute are convinced of a corr= elation, =0Aand then one day detect with their deeply buried devices a sudd= en swarm of =0Anonvolcanic tremors, would they call the mayor of San Franci= sco or Los Angeles =0Aand issue a warning? And would the mayors then order = a mass evacuation? And if =0Athey did, what if the scientists turned out to= be wrong? =0AThese are questions well worth asking =E2=80=94 and asking ev= en more stridently of a =0Aplace that is somewhat less sophisticated than C= alifornia. If a similar swarm of =0Adata is noticed in the Enriquillo-Plant= ain Garden fault, would geologists try to =0Awarn the citizens of a city li= ke Port-au-Prince? And even if the forecasts were =0Aright, would such a wa= rning save lives, or would it set off panics more lethal =0Athan the earthq= uake itself?=0AThe branch of seismology that deals with prediction is undou= btedly in a =0Aslightly better place than it was half a decade ago. But new= questions arise =0Awith every step toward the grail, and the answers come = too slowly to bring true =0Acomfort to anyone today, least of all the unfor= tunate people of Haiti.=0ASimon Winchester is the author of "A Crack in the= Edge of the World: America =0Aand the Great California Earthquake of 1906"= and the forthcoming "Atlantic: A =0ABiography of the Ocean." =0A=C2=A0

Simon Winchester also = wrote "Krakatoa" which I'm reading now with enjoyment.
Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

--- On Fri, 1/1= 5/10, Edward Ianni <edwianni1@...........> wrote:

From: Edward Ianni <edwianni1@...........>Subject: NY TIMES
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Friday, January 15,= 2010, 1:46 AM

=0A=0A =0A =0A

Good Morning to All:

I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ )= about=20 their HS-3 Sensor and received the following reply. I found = the reply=20 quite interesting and informative. I thought that I would share it = with=20 everyone. some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3.

In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that, = but may=20 be "PayPal" and simply a typo.

Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the = popular=20 Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel it = necessary to=20 pass on this to the PSN Group.

Best Regards,

Jerry

Gerald,

Thanks for your email. In answer to = your=20 questions:

We will be implementing a Paypay = facility in the=20 next few weeks and will advise you when it is live. This should make = payment=20 much easier for you!

The HS-3 electronics are integral to = the unit, i.e.=20 inside the basebar and specifically designed by us for our = capacitance=20 sensor. Both the detector and microprocessor are TOTALLY digital, as is = the=20 feedback system that provides the additional ground tilt/earth tide = signal.=20 Hence, there are no analog signals involved whatsoever, and it is simply = not=20 possible to interface the sensor with third party electronics, nor = provide an=20 analog output. The HS-3 transmits digital velocity and digital ground = tilt=20 (24bit and 16 bit respectively) via RS232. One of the key reasons in = deciding=20 upon an intrinsically digital process was to eliminate the signal drift = that is=20 a feature of many analog systems.

We chose AmaSeis as the data logging = program since=20 this appears to be the most widely used package in the US and elsewhere, = for=20 example with hundreds installed in north American schools. However, we = are aware=20 that many people like to develop their own processing and plotting = applications,=20 and with this in mind the command protocol for the instrument is fully=20 published, with software examples, so that you can craft your own code = if you=20 want. This could be in Visual Basic, Liberty Basic, Python, C or BBC = Basic, as=20 per the examples on the user CD.

Regards,

Mark Noel

Professor M J Noel

Rockwave & GeoQuest = Associates

Rockside

Ballajora

Maughold

Isle of Man

British Isles

IM7 1BL

Tel: +44 (01) 1624 819364

Email: enquiries@.............. or rockside@........

Web: www.rockwave.co.uk

Original Message -----

From:=20 GPayton=20

To: enquiries@.............. =

Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 = 5:30=20 PM

Subject: HS-3 Questions

Gentlemen:

1) Were you ever able acquire credit = card=20 availability?

2) In a discussion here in the US, it = was pointed=20 out that while your HS-3 was VERY interesting, many of the = amateur=20 seismology enthusiasts here have electronics bought from Larry Cochran = or=20 their own. They also use different software packages too. = These=20 factors prohibit serious thought about buying the HS-3.

Is there now or possibly could be a separate analog = output for=20 use by these systems?

Thank you,

Gerald Payton

Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: chrisatupw@....... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:04:15 EST In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. writes: I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( _http://www.rockwave.co.uk/_ (http://www.rockwave.co.uk/) ) about their HS-3 Sensor and received the following reply. I found the reply quite interesting and informative. Some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3. In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that, but may be "PayPal" and simply a typo. Hi Gerry, I think that it is Paypal. Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the popular Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel it necessary to pass on this to the PSN Group. The detection and compensation systems on the HS-3 are PURELY DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative sensor to measure the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an additional amplifier! Regards, Chris Chapman

In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. writes:

I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( http://www.rockwave.c= o.uk/ ) about=20 their HS-3 Sensor and received the following reply. I found=20 the reply quite interesting and informative. Some of you may= be=20 thinking about buying the HS-3.

In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that,= but=20 may be "PayPal" and simply a typo.

Hi Gerry,

I think that it is Paypal.

Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the= popular=20 Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel it necess= ary to=20 pass on this to the PSN Group.

The detection and compensation systems on the= HS-3=20 are PURELY DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative sensor to mea= sure=20 the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an additional=20 amplifier!

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:09:10 -0500 Jerry, From what I can tell, the HS-3 acts as if it has an internal A/D, so no amplifiers or external electronics are required. Its data feeds directly to the computer. The problem is having data acquisition software like WinSDR work with it. Rockwave appear to have written their own driver program to work with AmaSeis. The biggest problem making such software may not be the reading of the data, but would be related to providing the instrument-unique commands to send to it to set it up and make it work. Although it is true that they can use feedback to compensate for static ground tilt, it is also likely that it will respond to the rate of change of tilt, which may be almost as bad. Nice looking instrument. Brett At 07:24 AM 1/19/2010 -0600, you wrote: > >Good Morning to All: > >I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( >http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ ) about their HS-3 >Sensor and received the following reply. I found the reply quite >interesting and informative. I thought that I would share it with >everyone. some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3. > >In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that, but may be >"PayPal" and simply a typo. > >Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the popular >Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel it necessary to >pass on this to the PSN Group. > >Best Regards, >Jerry > >---------- > Watch our wiggles http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm or watch some very very good wiggles http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/ANMO_24hr.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:12:59 -0600 Thank you Chris, I suspected that it might be PayPal and that is GOOD. Yes, everything is digital; thus not compatible with Larry's box which a great number of us own. And, you are committed to AmaSeis too. You can output a PSN type file from AmaSeis, but isn't my "cup of tea." Thanks again, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: chrisatupw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. writes: I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ ) about their HS-3 Sensor and received the following reply. I found the reply quite interesting and informative. Some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3. In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that, but may be "PayPal" and simply a typo. Hi Gerry, I think that it is Paypal. Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the popular Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel it necessary to pass on this to the PSN Group. The detection and compensation systems on the HS-3 are PURELY DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative sensor to measure the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an additional amplifier! Regards, Chris Chapman

Thank you = Chris,

I suspected that it might = be PayPal and=20 that is GOOD. Yes, everything is digital; thus not compatible with = Larry's=20 box which a great number of us own. And, you are committed to = AmaSeis=20 too. You can output a PSN type file from AmaSeis, but isn't my = "cup of=20 tea."

Thanks again,

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 chrisatupw@.......

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 = 8:04=20 AM

Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3=20 Information

In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. = writes:

I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ )= =20 about their HS-3 Sensor and received the following reply. I = found=20 the reply quite interesting and informative. Some of you = may be=20 thinking about buying the HS-3.

In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with = that, but=20 may be "PayPal" and simply a typo.

Hi Gerry,

I think that it is Paypal.

Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to = the=20 popular Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still = feel it=20 necessary to pass on this to the PSN = Group.

The detection and compensation systems on = the=20 HS-3 are PURELY DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative = sensor to=20 measure the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an = additional=20 amplifier!

Regards,

Chris=20 Chapman

Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: ian ian@........... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:17:00 +0000 I've just had a look around the HS-3 site but can't find any information about price. Can anyone point me to the info? Thanks Ian chrisatupw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. writes: > > I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( > http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ ) about their HS-3 Sensor and received > the following reply. I found the reply quite interesting and > informative. Some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3. > > In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that, but > may be "PayPal" and simply a typo. > > Hi Gerry, > > I think that it is Paypal. > > Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the > popular Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel > it necessary to pass on this to the PSN Group. > > The detection and compensation systems on the HS-3 are PURELY > DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative sensor to measure > the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an additional > amplifier! > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:30:18 -0600 Boy, I had to search too. Go to the CONTACT page and down at the bottom it says: "The HS-3 is priced at �310.00 (Sterling), inclusive of the software and accessories described on this website. The cost of shipment will depend on your location. Please contact us to obtain a quotation" ----- Original Message ----- From: ian To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:17 AM Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information I've just had a look around the HS-3 site but can't find any information about price. Can anyone point me to the info? Thanks Ian chrisatupw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. writes: > > I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( > http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ ) about their HS-3 Sensor and received > the following reply. I found the reply quite interesting and > informative. Some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3. > > In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that, but > may be "PayPal" and simply a typo. > > Hi Gerry, > > I think that it is Paypal. > > Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the > popular Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel > it necessary to pass on this to the PSN Group. > > The detection and compensation systems on the HS-3 are PURELY > DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative sensor to measure > the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an additional > amplifier! > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Boy, I had to search too. Go to the CONTACT page and down at = the=20 bottom it says: "The HS-3 is priced at =A3310.00 (Sterling), inclusive = of the=20 software and accessories described on this website. The cost of shipment = will=20 depend on your location. Please contact us to obtain a quotation"

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 ian =

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 = 8:17=20 AM

Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3=20 Information

I've just had a look around the HS-3 site but can't = find any=20 information
about price.

Can anyone point me to the=20 info?

Thanks

Ian

chrisatupw@....... = wrote:
> In a=20 message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@.............=20 writes:
>
>     I sent an email to = Rockwave in=20 the UK (
>     http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ ) = about their=20 HS-3 Sensor and received
>     the following = reply. I found the reply quite interesting=20 and
>     informative. Some of you may be = thinking=20 about buying the HS-3.
>     =20
>     In the reply, he says "Paypay." = I am=20 not familiar with that, but
>     may be = "PayPal"=20 and simply a typo.
>
> Hi Gerry,
> =20
>     I think that it is=20 Paypal.
>
>     Personally, I am = disappointed=20 in that it cannot be adapted to the
>     = popular=20 Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still=20 feel
>     it necessary to pass on this to = the PSN=20 Group.
>
>     The detection and = compensation=20 systems on the HS-3 are PURELY
> DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used = with a=20 capacitative sensor to measure
> the position and movement of = the mass.=20 You DON'T NEED an additional
> amplifier!
> =20
>     Regards,
> =20
>     Chris=20 = Chapman
__________________________________________________________
=
Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Earthquake Warning From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:47:54 +0000 Hi all, There is a chance of a strong earthquake near Cayman Islands. A earthquake of size mb5.6 has shown him self, and this looks like a pre-earthquake to a bigger earthquake in the area. When it might come depends a lot on local dynamics. Size of the earthquake to come is in the range of Mw 6.0 to 7.5 at best guess. But this area has a history of Mw8.0 earthquakes in that fault zone. But not nessary on the current fault line. EMSC info on the earthquake, http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D152055 Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: ian ian@........... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:29:33 +0000 Hi, thanks for tracking that down. Cheers Ian GPayton wrote: > Boy, I had to search too. Go to the CONTACT page and down at the > bottom it says: "The HS-3 is priced at �310.00 (Sterling), inclusive > of the software and accessories described on this website. The cost of > shipment will depend on your location. Please contact us to obtain a > quotation" > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* ian > *To:* psn-l@.............. > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:17 AM > *Subject:* Re: Rockware HS-3 Information > > I've just had a look around the HS-3 site but can't find any > information > about price. > > Can anyone point me to the info? > > Thanks > > Ian > > chrisatupw@....... wrote: > > In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. > writes: > > > > I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( > > http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ ) about their HS-3 Sensor and > received > > the following reply. I found the reply quite interesting and > > informative. Some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3. > > > > In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with > that, but > > may be "PayPal" and simply a typo. > > > > Hi Gerry, > > > > I think that it is Paypal. > > > > Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted > to the > > popular Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still > feel > > it necessary to pass on this to the PSN Group. > > > > The detection and compensation systems on the HS-3 are PURELY > > DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative sensor to measure > > the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an additional > > amplifier! > > > > Regards, > > > > Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. > with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Earthquake Warning From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:34:03 +0000 Hi all, Here is a artical on this subject. http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/0113/The-geology-underlying-th= e-devastating-Haiti-earthquake Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: chrisatupw@....... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:14:37 EST =20 In a message dated 19/01/2010, ian@........... writes: I've just had a look around the HS-3 site but can't find any information= =20 about price. Hi Ian, =20 See _http://www.rockwave.co.uk/contact/_=20 (http://www.rockwave.co.uk/contact/) Cost =3D =A3310 + pp =A3310 =3D US $508 =20 Regards, =20 Chris Chapman <= FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>

In a message dated 19/01/2010, ian@........... writes:

I've=20 just had a look around the HS-3 site but can't find any information
= about=20 price.

Hi Ian,

See http://www.rockwave.co.uk/contact/ Cost=20 =3D =A3310 + pp

=A3310 =3D US $508

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Testing From: Pete Rowe ptrowe@......... Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:21:52 -0800 (PST) I=A0 haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. Is the site = down? Pete=20 San Jose =0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A Subject: Re: Testing From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:12:25 -0700 Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010. Bob Hancock Tucson, AZ On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote: > I haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. Is the = site down? > Pete=20 > San Jose >=20

Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010.

Bob Hancock

Tucson, AZ

On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote:

I haven't received a single psn posting= in about two weeks. Is the site down?
Pete
San Jose

I haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. Is the site down?
Pete
San Jose

Subject: Re: Testing From: Pete Rowe ptrowe@......... Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:06:21 -0800 (PST) Thanks, Bob. I was beginning to think I may have goofed something up and ha= d fallen off the list. I guess no one has anything to say. Pete --- On Tue, 1/26/10, Bob Hancock wrote: From: Bob Hancock Subject: Re: Testing To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 8:12 PM Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010. Bob HancockTucson, AZ On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote: I=A0 haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. Is the site = down? Pete=20 San Jose =0A=0A =20 =0A=0A=0A

Thanks, Bob. I was beginning to think I may h= ave goofed something up and had fallen off the list. I guess no one has any= thing to say.
Pete

--- On Tue, 1/26/10, Bob Hancock <icarus@.........> wrote:

Fr= om: Bob Hancock <icarus@.........>
Subject: Re: Testing
To: psn= -l@..............
Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 8:12 PM

Pete - The last message I received was January 19,= 2010.

Bob Hancock
Tucson, AZ
=

On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote:
=
I haven't received a s= ingle psn posting in about two weeks. Is the site down?
Pete
San Jos= e

=0A=0A

=0A=0A=0A=0A Subject: Re: Testing From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:49:15 -0700 howdy psn; Maybe everyone is playing borderlands the game is so long it takes forever to play, or is it just because Im a 50 year old kid ?? Not as fast as i used to be :-) I have a backlog of files to process myself. missed the haiti quake due to the fact my clock was not calibrated on time so i went offline until i could do that. i understand it needs to be synchronized with wwv every 24 hours. i think its good for 48 hrs since i calibrated the 12MHz clock fairly well but still i listen to what people want with the time. dont know what everyone else is doing but statistics say there should occassionally be quiet times just like noisy ones. im no professional. only do this for a hobby. still, i try to insure my gram time readings are correct before posting them. Mr. President is making a TV appearance soon today, maybe he may tell us why no one is here. geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Rowe" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:06 PM Subject: Re: Testing Thanks, Bob. I was beginning to think I may have goofed something up and had fallen off the list. I guess no one has anything to say. Pete --- On Tue, 1/26/10, Bob Hancock wrote: From: Bob Hancock Subject: Re: Testing To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 8:12 PM Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010. Bob HancockTucson, AZ On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote: I haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. Is the site down? Pete San Jose __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Testing From: jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 02:20:04 -0000 (UTC) Hi, I did post a notification on a volcano called Eyjafjallaj�kull and Hekla. But Eyjafjallaj�kull has been coming with many earthquakes this past weeks since the new year. However nobody did answer those emails of mine. I am also dealing with a big backlog of earthquakes to plot, about thee months worth of files. That is about ~2000 files I think. Regards, J�n Fr�mann. > > howdy psn; > > Maybe everyone is playing borderlands > the game is so long it takes > forever to play, or is it just because > Im a 50 year old kid ?? > Not as fast as i used to be :-) > I have a backlog of files to process myself. > missed the haiti quake due to the fact > my clock was not calibrated on time > so i went offline until i could do that. > i understand it needs to be synchronized > with wwv every 24 hours. > i think its good for 48 hrs since i calibrated the > 12MHz clock fairly well but still i listen > to what people want with the time. > dont know what everyone else is doing > but statistics say there should occassionally > be quiet times just like noisy ones. > im no professional. only do this for a hobby. > still, i try to insure my gram time readings are correct > before posting them. > Mr. President is making a TV appearance soon today, > maybe he may tell us why no one is here. > > geoff > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Rowe" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:06 PM > Subject: Re: Testing > > > Thanks, Bob. I was beginning to think I may have goofed something up and > had fallen off the list. I guess no one has anything to > say. > Pete > > > > --- On Tue, 1/26/10, Bob Hancock wrote: > > From: Bob Hancock > Subject: Re: Testing > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 8:12 PM > > Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010. > Bob HancockTucson, AZ > > On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote: > I haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. Is the site > down? > Pete > San Jose > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Testing From: "herman boon" herman.boon@......... Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:07:06 +0100 HELLO PSN same problems here on my site. Boon Herman . Belgium. greetings ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bob Hancock=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 5:12 AM Subject: Re: Testing Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010. Bob Hancock Tucson, AZ On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote: I haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. = Is the site down? Pete=20 San Jose =20

HELLO PSN

same problems here on my = site.

Boon Herman .

Belgium.

greetings

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Bob = Hancock=20

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Wednesday, January 27, = 2010 5:12=20 AM

Subject: Re: Testing

Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010.

Bob Hancock

Tucson, AZ

On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote:

I haven't received a single psn posting = in about=20 two weeks. Is the site down?
Pete
San=20 = Jose

Subject: From: Robert McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:09:36 -0500 I think everything is working OK, just not many messages. The archive for this year's messages is: http://www.seismicnet.com/psnlist/index10.html Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:07:47 -0700 Hello Chris; Are you able to provide us with a mag/coil design with three wires specifically designed to work with a differential amplifier. This would mean a center tapped coil with two wire each one going to + and - and the third wire going to neutral ground ? ( balanced input ? ) I am only interested in the sensor and not the associated electronics. The only way I know is two identical coils joined in an additive way putting the join point at ground. But, I understand there is an impedance difference between plus and minus inputs into the op amp and this may be needed to be considered in the design of the sensor itself ? I think of your design which uses several small magnets and a rectangular coil. Some three wire version of that for a vertical sensor. Thanks, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:02:47 EST In a message dated 03/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: Are you able to provide us with a mag/coil design with three wires specifically designed to work with a differential amplifier. This would mean a center tapped coil with two wire each one going to + and - and the third wire going to neutral ground ? Hi Geoff, Sure, but is there any problem in doing this? The ordinary single channel opamp with 4 resistors to give a 'differential' opamp circuit normally has a single 'floating' coil eg LT1007. The feedback maintains the same voltage on both the +ve and -ve inputs, so the coil drives a resistance of 2 x Rin + Rcoil. With high efficiency NdFeB magnet blocks, this low impedance can significantly damp the mass and can even damp it beyond critical. The input impedance relative to analogue ground is different for the two inputs. If you use a true differential input opamp, like the INA118, the input impedances to both inputs are very high both relative to one another and to analogue ground. You need to use two reels of wire to wind one coil. It is an advantage if you can arrange for the two wires to be twisted together. Alternatively, you can buy dual core insulated wires. The centre of the coil is earthed. You can't separate the coil design from the amplifier circuit design. I hope that this helps. Regards, Chris

In a message dated 03/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:

Are you=20 able to provide us with a mag/coil design with three wires specifically= =20 designed to work
with a differential amplifier.
This would mean a= center=20 tapped coil with two wire each one going to + and - and the third=20 wire
going to neutral ground ?

Hi Geoff,

Sure, but is there any problem in doing this?=

The ordinary single channel opamp with 4 resi= stors=20 to give a 'differential' opamp circuit normally has a single 'floating' co= il eg=20 LT1007. The feedback maintains the same voltage on both the +ve and -ve in= puts,=20 so the coil drives a resistance of 2 x Rin + Rcoil. With high efficie= ncy=20 NdFeB magnet blocks, this low impedance can significantly damp the ma= ss and=20 can even damp it beyond critical. The input impedance relative to analogue= =20 ground is different for the two inputs.

If you use a true differential input opamp,= like=20 the INA118, the input impedances to both inputs are very high both relativ= e to=20 one another and to analogue ground. You need to use two reels of wire to= wind=20 one coil. It is an advantage if you can arrange for the two wires to be tw= isted=20 together. Alternatively, you can buy dual core insulated wires. The= centre=20 of the coil is earthed.

You can't separate the coil design from the= =20 amplifier circuit design.

I hope that this helps.

Regards,

Chris

Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:02:56 -0700 Hello Chris, electro mechanical Sensor only and not the associated electronics. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:02 PM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input > > In a message dated 03/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: > > Are you able to provide us with a mag/coil design with three wires > specifically designed to work > with a differential amplifier. > This would mean a center tapped coil with two wire each one going to + and > - and the third wire > going to neutral ground ? > > > > Hi Geoff, > > Sure, but is there any problem in doing this? > > The ordinary single channel opamp with 4 resistors to give a > 'differential' opamp circuit normally has a single 'floating' coil eg LT1007. The > feedback maintains the same voltage on both the +ve and -ve inputs, so the > coil drives a resistance of 2 x Rin + Rcoil. With high efficiency NdFeB > magnet blocks, this low impedance can significantly damp the mass and can even > damp it beyond critical. The input impedance relative to analogue ground is > different for the two inputs. > > If you use a true differential input opamp, like the INA118, the input > impedances to both inputs are very high both relative to one another and > to analogue ground. You need to use two reels of wire to wind one coil. It > is an advantage if you can arrange for the two wires to be twisted together. > Alternatively, you can buy dual core insulated wires. The centre of the > coil is earthed. > > You can't separate the coil design from the amplifier circuit design. > > I hope that this helps. > > Regards, > > Chris > What i mean is a coil like a center tapped inductor +.......| C O Gnd.....| I L -.......| CO part and the IL part have to be identical. I do not know if you can wind such a thing all at once or need two identical yet seperate coil magnet assemblies. Forget the amplifier part altogether, use what you want. This arrangement is the what i believe to be the only proper one for MY application. I have never built such a singular thing and can only guess where to begin. I do know that inital signal strength and signal to noise ratio is paramount for any sensor at all and not just for areas of our own interest. Easiest way to get a good signal to noise ratio seems to be to use a two ton (avd.) mass instead of a two pound (avd.) one. The highest density material you can afford. The electronics is moot since I know what I want to do there. Superconducting wire sounds ideal yet none at room temp as far as i know. At the moment i am thinking two of your coil/magnet ideas in additive fashion connected to the same mass. Two coils should double the signal right from the start. Four would quadruple it. Ideally you use these things in sets of two and only one is what I call halfassed. I am only interested in vertical sensors. Thanks for your responses. geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:26:32 EST In a message dated 06/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: What i mean is a coil like a center tapped inductor +.......| C O Gnd.....| I L -.......| CO part and the IL part have to be identical. I do not know if you can wind such a thing all at once or need two identical yet seperate coil magnet assemblies. Hi Geoff, You can wind it quite easily using two supply reels winding on both wires at the same time. Forget the amplifier part altogether, use what you want. The ordinary single opamp with four resistors will allow you to wind a single coil and use an amplifier of that type. I have never built such a singular thing and can only guess where to begin. I do know that inital signal strength and signal to noise ratio is paramount for any sensor at all and not just for areas of our own interest. Easiest way to get a good signal to noise ratio seems to be to use a two ton (avd.) mass instead of a two pound (avd.) one. The highest density material you can afford. That is not neccessary or desirable. Superconducting wire sounds ideal yet none at room temp as far as I know. There is none and unlikely to be any in the future. At the moment i am thinking two of your coil/magnet ideas in additive fashion connected to the same mass. Two coils should double the signal right from the start. Four would quadruple it. You usually do better by doubling the number of turns on a coil. A large increase in the output can be readily achieved by using thicker NdFeB magnets, rather than by using more turns on the coil. The limit is set by diamagnetic forces on the copper wire at the edges of the magnets. Copper wire varies in it's magnetic properties. If you use a true differential amplifier like the INA118 with a double wound coil, you can use finer wire since the coil resistance is not so important. Calculate the kT noise voltage in the coil. Regards, Chris Chapman

In a message dated 06/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:

What i=20 mean is a coil like a center tapped inductor

+.......|
= =20 C
O
Gnd.....|
= =20 I
L
-.......|

CO= part=20 and the IL part have to be identical. I do not know if you can wind such= a=20 thing all at once or need two identical yet seperate coil magnet=20 assemblies.

Hi Geoff,

You can wind it quite easily using two supply= reels=20 winding on both wires at the same time.

Forget=20 the amplifier part altogether, use what you want.

The ordinary single opamp with four resistors= will=20 allow you to wind a single coil and use an amplifier of that type.

I have=20 never built such a singular thing and can only guess where to begin.
=
I=20 do know that inital signal strength and signal to noise ratio is paramou= nt for=20 any sensor at all and not just for areas of our own interest.

Eas= iest=20 way to get a good signal to noise ratio seems to be to use a two ton (av= d.)=20 mass instead of a two pound (avd.) one. The highest density material you= can=20 afford.

That is not neccessary or desirable.

Superconducting wire sounds ideal yet none= at room temp as far as I=20 know.

There is none and unlikely to be any in the= =20 future.

At the=20 moment i am thinking two of your coil/magnet ideas in additive fashion= =20 connected to the same mass.
Two coils should double the signal right= from=20 the start. Four would quadruple it.

You usually do better by doubling the number= of=20 turns on a coil. A large increase in the output can be readily achieved by= using=20 thicker NdFeB magnets, rather than by using more turns on the coil. The li= mit is=20 set by diamagnetic forces on the copper wire at the edges of the magnets.= Copper=20 wire varies in it's magnetic properties.

If you use a true differential amplifier like= the=20 INA118 with a double wound coil, you can use finer wire since the coil=20 resistance is not so important. Calculate the kT noise voltage in the coil= ..=20

Regards,

Chris=20 Chapman

Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:20:38 -0700 Hello Chris, I have in the past ( like 1970s ) seen wire that is "like" 40 guage paired magnet wire which was designed to be used with expendable bathythermograph probes. ( make a temp profile of the ocean waters ) I have never seen such wire available to anything but government. have you ever seen such wire in any guage at all ? Maybe its not even copper If I know Govt it might be silver wire but i think it looked copper. Lets say twin 30 gauge copper wire which is enameled on a 1000 or more foot spool ? I would think this be the right kind of wire to make a center tapped sensor coil ? regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:26 PM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input > In a message dated 06/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: > > What i mean is a coil like a center tapped inductor > > +.......| > C > O > Gnd.....| > I > L > -.......| > > CO part and the IL part have to be identical. I do not know if you can > wind such a thing all at once or need two identical yet seperate coil magnet > assemblies. > Hi Geoff, > > You can wind it quite easily using two supply reels winding on both > wires at the same time. > > Forget the amplifier part altogether, use what you want. > The ordinary single opamp with four resistors will allow you to wind a > single coil and use an amplifier of that type. > > I have never built such a singular thing and can only guess where to begin. > > I do know that inital signal strength and signal to noise ratio is > paramount for any sensor at all and not just for areas of our own interest. > > Easiest way to get a good signal to noise ratio seems to be to use a two > ton (avd.) mass instead of a two pound (avd.) one. The highest density > material you can afford. > That is not neccessary or desirable. > > Superconducting wire sounds ideal yet none at room temp as far as I know. > There is none and unlikely to be any in the future. > > At the moment i am thinking two of your coil/magnet ideas in additive > fashion connected to the same mass. > Two coils should double the signal right from the start. Four would > quadruple it. > > > You usually do better by doubling the number of turns on a coil. A large > increase in the output can be readily achieved by using thicker NdFeB > magnets, rather than by using more turns on the coil. The limit is set by > diamagnetic forces on the copper wire at the edges of the magnets. Copper wire > varies in it's magnetic properties. > If you use a true differential amplifier like the INA118 with a double > wound coil, you can use finer wire since the coil resistance is not so > important. Calculate the kT noise voltage in the coil. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 05:43:17 -0700 Hi Folks, In the past I have used 38ga copper wire for making standard magnet coils. I have a friend who gave me a spool of 40ga copper magnet wire, approx 1lb. This is not "paired" wire. It is a single strand of coated, magnet wire. This is very very fine wire. I have not used it to wrap a coil, but I think I could if I was careful. Obviously it can break easily. I do believe this is was purchased at a Army Navy surplus store. Happy to share this wire, I will never use it all. I am not sure how share it, but I am open to suggestions. One method would be to send me a empty spool, and instruct me as to how many wrap to apply to it? On a different subject............for those interested.........The vertical, wall mounted sensor, I call the "Vertical Mount, Garden gate, Horizontal Seismic Sensor" VGHS, which is mostly like a Lehman, but mounts to the wall, using a single vertical mechanism, is operating perfectly. I have not adjusted it in several months, and it is recording very well. I have it set to 22 seconds. I have a .pdf file to share. Cheers, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey" To: Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 9:20 PM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input > Hello Chris, > > I have in the past ( like 1970s ) > seen wire that is "like" 40 guage paired > magnet wire which was designed > to be used with expendable > bathythermograph probes. > ( make a temp profile of the ocean waters ) > > I have never seen such wire > available to anything but > government. > > have you ever seen such wire in any > guage at all ? > > Maybe its not even copper > If I know Govt it might be silver wire > but i think it looked copper. > > Lets say twin 30 gauge copper wire > which is enameled on a 1000 or more foot > spool ? > > I would think this be the right kind of wire > to make a center tapped sensor coil ? > > regards, > geoff > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:26 PM > Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input > > >> In a message dated 06/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: >> >> What i mean is a coil like a center tapped inductor >> >> +.......| >> C >> O >> Gnd.....| >> I >> L >> -.......| >> >> CO part and the IL part have to be identical. I do not know if you can >> wind such a thing all at once or need two identical yet seperate coil >> magnet assemblies. >> Hi Geoff, >> >> You can wind it quite easily using two supply reels winding on both >> wires at the same time. >> >> Forget the amplifier part altogether, use what you want. >> The ordinary single opamp with four resistors will allow you to wind >> a single coil and use an amplifier of that type. >> >> I have never built such a singular thing and can only guess where to >> begin. >> >> I do know that inital signal strength and signal to noise ratio is >> paramount for any sensor at all and not just for areas of our own >> interest. >> >> Easiest way to get a good signal to noise ratio seems to be to use a two >> ton (avd.) mass instead of a two pound (avd.) one. The highest density >> material you can afford. >> That is not neccessary or desirable. >> >> Superconducting wire sounds ideal yet none at room temp as far as I >> know. >> There is none and unlikely to be any in the future. >> >> At the moment i am thinking two of your coil/magnet ideas in additive >> fashion connected to the same mass. >> Two coils should double the signal right from the start. Four would >> quadruple it. >> >> >> You usually do better by doubling the number of turns on a coil. A large >> increase in the output can be readily achieved by using thicker NdFeB >> magnets, rather than by using more turns on the coil. The limit is set >> by diamagnetic forces on the copper wire at the edges of the magnets. >> Copper wire varies in it's magnetic properties. >> If you use a true differential amplifier like the INA118 with a >> double wound coil, you can use finer wire since the coil resistance is >> not so important. Calculate the kT noise voltage in the coil. Regards, >> >> Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input - Wire From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:52:25 EST In a message dated 16/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: I have in the past ( like 1970s ) seen wire that is "like" 40 guage paired magnet wire which was designed to be used with expendable bathythermograph probes. I have never seen such wire available to anything but government. Hi Geoff, Go to _www.wires.co.uk_ (http://www.wires.co.uk) , select Copper wire from the left column list and then Bonded Bifilar Wire. 30 AWG is 0.010" dia. 32SWG is 0.0092" dia This is really to thick for winding sensor coils in my opinion. See _http://www.dave-cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html_ (http://www.dave-cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html) Lets say twin 30 gauge copper wire which is enameled on a 1000 or more foot spool ? I would think this be the right kind of wire to make a center tapped sensor coil ? I would just use two reels of copper wire. Cut open an old aerosol spray can and extract the 6" of small diameter plastic tube. Cut ~3" off this and feed both wires through it. Use it to guide both wires onto your coil former as you wind it. I am quite happy winding coils of 38 to 40 AWG wire. It is easy to handle and it does not break very easily. If you try to use 1 or 2 thou wire, it does get a bit difficult to handle. If you buy wire with polyurethane insulation, you can solder it directly with a hot iron - the insulation just melts. You may need to search for a suitable source in the USA. _http://www.alliedelec.com/_ (http://www.alliedelec.com/) stock 36 AWG Beldsol Magnet wire in 1/2 lb reels. Hi Folks, In the past I have used 38ga copper wire for making standard magnet coils. I have a friend who gave me a spool of 40ga copper magnet wire, approx 1lb. Ted, could you wind off 1 oz reels of fine wire? This should be enough to wind a sensor coil. Regards, Chris Chapman

In a message dated 16/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:

I have=20 in the past ( like 1970s ) seen wire that is "like" 40 guage paired magn= et=20 wire which was designed to be used with expendable bathythermograph=20 probes.
I have never seen such wire available to anything but=20 government.

Hi Geoff,

Go to www= ..wires.co.uk, select Copper wire from the=20 left column list and then Bonded Bifilar Wire.

30 AWG is 0.010" dia. 32SWG is 0.0092" dia

This is really to thick for winding sensor co= ils in=20 my opinion.

See http://www.dave-cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html<= /DIV>

Lets say=20 twin 30 gauge copper wire which is enameled on a 1000 or more foot spool= =20 ?

I would think this be the right kind of wire to make a center= tapped=20 sensor coil ?

I would just use two reels of copper wire. Cu= t open=20 an old aerosol spray can and extract the 6" of small diameter plastic tube= .. Cut=20 ~3" off this and feed both wires through it. Use it to guide both wires on= to=20 your coil former as you wind it.

I am quite happy winding coils of 38 to 40 AW= G=20 wire. It is easy to handle and it does not break very easily. If you try= to use=20 1 or 2 thou wire, it does get a bit difficult to handle.

If you buy wire with polyurethane insulation,= you=20 can solder it directly with a hot iron - the insulation just melts.

You may need to search for a suita= ble source=20 in the USA.

http:= //www.alliedelec.com/ stock 36=20 AWG Beldsol Magnet wire in 1/2 lb reels.

Hi=20 Folks, In the past I have used 38ga copper wire for making= =20 standard magnet coils. I have a friend who gave me a spool= of 40ga=20 copper magnet wire, approx 1lb.

Ted, could you wind off 1 oz reels= of fine=20 wire? This should be enough to wind a sensor coil.

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input - Wire From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:46:39 -0700 Hi Chris and All, Yes I think I can wind off 1 oz reels. I found it = impossible to get any copper wire thin enough locally. You pointed out = it is avail on the internet. Again, for those interest in building a = sensor, and have not found the fine copper wire necessary, email me and = I will try to help. =20 Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:52 AM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input - = Wire In a message dated 16/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: I have in the past ( like 1970s ) seen wire that is "like" 40 guage = paired magnet wire which was designed to be used with expendable = bathythermograph probes. I have never seen such wire available to anything but government. Hi Geoff, Go to www.wires.co.uk, select Copper wire from the left column = list and then Bonded Bifilar Wire. 30 AWG is 0.010" dia. 32SWG is 0.0092" dia=20 This is really to thick for winding sensor coils in my opinion. See http://www.dave-cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html Lets say twin 30 gauge copper wire which is enameled on a 1000 or = more foot spool ? I would think this be the right kind of wire to make a center tapped = sensor coil ? I would just use two reels of copper wire. Cut open an old aerosol = spray can and extract the 6" of small diameter plastic tube. Cut ~3" off = this and feed both wires through it. Use it to guide both wires onto = your coil former as you wind it. I am quite happy winding coils of 38 to 40 AWG wire. It is easy to = handle and it does not break very easily. If you try to use 1 or 2 thou = wire, it does get a bit difficult to handle. If you buy wire with polyurethane insulation, you can solder it = directly with a hot iron - the insulation just melts. You may need to search for a suitable source in the USA.=20 http://www.alliedelec.com/ stock 36 AWG Beldsol Magnet wire in 1/2 = lb reels. Hi Folks, In the past I have used 38ga copper wire for making = standard magnet coils. I have a friend who gave me a spool of 40ga = copper magnet wire, approx 1lb. Ted, could you wind off 1 oz reels of fine wire? This should be = enough to wind a sensor coil. Regards, Chris Chapman

Hi Chris and All, Yes I think I can wind off 1 oz=20 reels. I found it impossible to get any copper wire thin = enough=20 locally. You pointed out it is avail on the internet. = Again,=20 for those interest in building a sensor, and have not found the fine = copper wire=20 necessary, email me and I will try to help.

Ted

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Tuesday, February 16, = 2010 6:52=20 AM

Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor = Designed=20 Specifiically for diff input - Wire

In a message dated 16/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... = writes:

I have=20 in the past ( like 1970s ) seen wire that is "like" 40 guage paired = magnet=20 wire which was designed to be used with expendable bathythermograph=20 probes.
I have never seen such wire available to anything but=20 government.

Hi Geoff,

Go to www.wires.co.uk, select Copper = wire from the=20 left column list and then Bonded Bifilar Wire.

30 AWG is 0.010" dia. 32SWG is 0.0092" = dia

This is really to thick for winding = sensor coils=20 in my opinion.

See http://www.dave= -cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html

Lets=20 say twin 30 gauge copper wire which is enameled on a 1000 or more = foot spool=20 ?

I would think this be the right kind of wire to make a = center=20 tapped sensor coil ?

I would just use two reels of copper = wire. Cut=20 open an old aerosol spray can and extract the 6" of small diameter = plastic=20 tube. Cut ~3" off this and feed both wires through it. Use it to guide = both=20 wires onto your coil former as you wind it.

I am quite happy winding coils of 38 to = 40 AWG=20 wire. It is easy to handle and it does not break very easily. If you = try to=20 use 1 or 2 thou wire, it does get a bit difficult to handle.

If you buy wire with polyurethane = insulation, you=20 can solder it directly with a hot iron - the insulation just = melts.

You may need to search for a = suitable=20 source in the USA.

http://www.alliedelec.com/ s= tock 36=20 AWG Beldsol Magnet wire in 1/2 lb reels.

Hi=20 Folks, In the past I have used 38ga copper wire for = making=20 standard magnet coils. I have a friend who gave me a = spool of=20 40ga copper magnet wire, approx 1lb.

Ted, could you wind off 1 oz = reels of fine=20 wire? This should be enough to wind a sensor coil.

Regards,

Chris=20 Chapman

Subject: For your information From: "Jim and Connie Lehman" lehmancj@........... Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:18:17 -0500 PSN Friends--Greetings from snowy Virginia. For your information, = expecially those folks in California and surrounding states--here is an = online 1 hz vertical readout you can compare your readouts with. The = amateur seismologist is Randy Fear, and he works at Big Bear Solar = Observatory and lives in Lucerne Valley where his seismic instrument is = located. Randy was a student at James Madison University 35 years ago, = and helped me develop the J.M.U. long period /Lehman/ sensor at that = time. Randy built an identical system, and we ran them at rt angles for = several months with very interesting comparisons. Randy's readout can be accessed at www.kc6jtn.net. Keep up the good work--Jim

PSN Friends--Greetings from snowy = Virginia. For your=20 information, expecially those folks in California and surrounding = states--here=20 is an online 1 hz vertical readout you can compare your readouts=20 with. The amateur seismologist is Randy Fear, and he works at Big = Bear=20 Solar Observatory and lives in Lucerne Valley where his seismic = instrument is=20 located. Randy was a student at James Madison University 35 years = ago, and=20 helped me develop the J.M.U. long period /Lehman/ sensor at that = time. =20 Randy built an identical system, and we ran them at rt angles for = several months=20 with very interesting comparisons.

Randy's readout can be accessed at = www.kc6jtn.net.

Keep up the good = work--Jim

Subject: Somebody Explain, Please From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:03:55 -0600 With USGS posting of " Magnitude 3.2 - GREATER LOS ANGELES AREA, CALIFORNIA 2010 February 17 05:04:54 UTC " event; they also issued an "additional information" about a "24-hour Aftershock Forecast Map." My question: "Aftershock from WHAT??" Jerry

With USGS posting of " Magnitude 3.2 - GREATER = LOS=20 ANGELES AREA, CALIFORNIA 2010 February 17 05:04:54 = UTC " event; they also issued an "additional information" about a = "24-hour Aftershock Forecast Map."

My question: "Aftershock from WHAT??"

Jerry

Subject: Re: Somebody Explain, Please From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:34:36 -0700 It is my understanding that for each and every EQ there exists the chance for after shocks. In most cases those aftershocks are smaller. But in rare cases the quake in question may be a Foreshock for a bigger aftershock. Possibly it is a nebulous or vague warning. Since lots of people are near LA and Like Riverside/ San Bernardino area is a major stress point that has been building for quite awhile. Unless I was rich like Mr. Gates, I would not want to live in the High Risk Eq areas. or Tornado areas or near the coast of any ocean or big lake. Or... major national defense related industry :-) Did any of you hear about the hiker that fell into St mount Helens Crater ? He ,supposedly, fell over 1000ft ?? Possibly a Geologist ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: "PSN Network List" Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:03 AM Subject: Somebody Explain, Please > With USGS posting of " Magnitude 3.2 - GREATER LOS ANGELES AREA, CALIFORNIA > 2010 February 17 05:04:54 UTC " event; they also issued an "additional > information" about a "24-hour Aftershock Forecast Map." > > My question: "Aftershock from WHAT??" > > Jerry > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Somebody Explain, Please From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:00:24 -0600 Thanks, I just didn't understand a "aftershock warning" for such a small event and wondered if they were referring to some other. I don't think he was a geologist: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/17/bohlig.profile/index.html Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Geoffrey To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 6:34 PM Subject: Re: Somebody Explain, Please It is my understanding that for each and every EQ there exists the chance for after shocks. In most cases those aftershocks are smaller. But in rare cases the quake in question may be a Foreshock for a bigger aftershock. Possibly it is a nebulous or vague warning. Since lots of people are near LA and Like Riverside/ San Bernardino area is a major stress point that has been building for quite awhile. Unless I was rich like Mr. Gates, I would not want to live in the High Risk Eq areas. or Tornado areas or near the coast of any ocean or big lake. Or... major national defense related industry :-) Did any of you hear about the hiker that fell into St mount Helens Crater ? He ,supposedly, fell over 1000ft ?? Possibly a Geologist ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: "PSN Network List" Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:03 AM Subject: Somebody Explain, Please > With USGS posting of " Magnitude 3.2 - GREATER LOS ANGELES AREA, CALIFORNIA > 2010 February 17 05:04:54 UTC " event; they also issued an "additional > information" about a "24-hour Aftershock Forecast Map." > > My question: "Aftershock from WHAT??" > > Jerry > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Thanks, I just didn't understand a "aftershock warning" for = such a=20 small event and wondered if they were referring to some other.

I don't think he was a geologist: http:= //www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/17/bohlig.profile/index.html

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Geoffrey=20

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Wednesday, February 17, = 2010 6:34=20 PM

Subject: Re: Somebody Explain,=20 Please

It is my understanding that for
each and every EQ = there=20 exists the
chance for after shocks.
In most cases those = aftershocks are=20 smaller.
But in rare cases the quake in question may be
a = Foreshock for=20 a bigger aftershock.
Possibly it is a nebulous or vague = warning.
Since=20 lots of people are near LA and
Like Riverside/ San Bernardino area = is a=20 major stress point
that has been building for quite = awhile.
Unless I was=20 rich like Mr. Gates, I would not
want to live in the High Risk Eq=20 areas.
or Tornado areas or near the coast
of any ocean or big=20 lake.
Or... major national defense related industry :-)

Did = any of=20 you hear about the hiker that fell
into St mount Helens Crater = ?
He=20 ,supposedly, fell over 1000ft ??
Possibly a Geologist=20 ??

----- Original Message -----
From: "GPayton" = <gpayton@.............>
To= : "PSN=20 Network List" <PSN-L@..............>
Sent= :=20 Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:03 AM
Subject: Somebody Explain,=20 Please

> With USGS posting of " Magnitude 3.2 - = GREATER=20 LOS ANGELES AREA, CALIFORNIA
> 2010 February 17 05:04:54 UTC " = event;=20 they also issued an "additional
> information" about a "24-hour = Aftershock Forecast Map."
>
> My question: "Aftershock = from=20 WHAT??"
>
> Jerry=20 =
>
__________________________________________________________
Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Somebody Explain, Please From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:52:35 +0000 Hi all, In 2008 there was a Mw6.3 earthquake in Iceland. That earthquake had a pre-earthquake of ML3.4 in size (in a swarm of earthquake, that one was the biggest). So this is warning from USGS has it's reasons. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On mi=F0, 2010-02-17 at 17:34 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > It is my understanding that for > each and every EQ there exists the > chance for after shocks. > In most cases those aftershocks are smaller. > But in rare cases the quake in question may be > a Foreshock for a bigger aftershock. > Possibly it is a nebulous or vague warning. > Since lots of people are near LA and > Like Riverside/ San Bernardino area is a major stress point > that has been building for quite awhile. > Unless I was rich like Mr. Gates, I would not > want to live in the High Risk Eq areas. > or Tornado areas or near the coast > of any ocean or big lake. > Or... major national defense related industry :-) >=20 > Did any of you hear about the hiker that fell > into St mount Helens Crater ? > He ,supposedly, fell over 1000ft ?? > Possibly a Geologist ?? >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "GPayton" > To: "PSN Network List" > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:03 AM > Subject: Somebody Explain, Please >=20 >=20 > > With USGS posting of " Magnitude 3.2 - GREATER LOS ANGELES AREA, CALIF= ORNIA=20 > > 2010 February 17 05:04:54 UTC " event; they also issued an "additional=20 > > information" about a "24-hour Aftershock Forecast Map." > >=20 > > My question: "Aftershock from WHAT??" > >=20 > > Jerry=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:56:16 -0700 Hello Mr. Channel, Would you be willing to share your plans with me for a 5 or 10 second device instead of a 22 second device ? I am interested in possibly building such a thing but do not have the ability/monies to design it or test a prototype. I may not be able to afford it but I need to see it to know. You can send me the plans in an email at gmvoeth at hotmail.com or point me to a web or ftp site or possibly post on a common alt binary news group. ( Anarchist, Lunatics and, Terrorists :-/ ) {not kidding---That's what they call the alt news groups} If you are willing to build and sell only the sensor ( not the electronics ) I might be interested but first I must understand this device. I am no expert, yet , like to build kits like the old Heath kit stuff of the past. It must be only vertical in its detection of motion either displacement or velocity. It must produce a signal level being no less than 3Volts per inch per second. at one hertz frequency into ,like , 10K ohms of load. It must have a magnetic damping system separate from the sensor itself. It must have a free period of 5 seconds with a Q of 1/SQR(2) which might be slightly different with minimum damping. It must be relatively insensitive to temperature changes. I have tried playing with various sensors like hall effect but have found them too temperature sensitive. Coil and magnet are just fine. If I were like B. Gates Id hire a real MIT physics major to design a proper device and a real Mechanical engineer to build it. But alas...I'm no such creature. If the device had three fixed calibrated settings one for 10 seconds and one for 5 seconds and one for 1Hz. that's a nice feature also. I have no need for more than 10 seconds of free period at the sensor. Since I am only interested in P and S waves. It would be required for me to build two identical devices to use this in the right way. Or there's no sense in pursuing this further. These specs are my own interests independent of other people. I have no interest in capitalizing on this, its only a hobby for myself. I figure if you have successfully built a 22 second vertical device then what I want is easier to build. If I could find a decent bathroom scale Id simply set it up and put 5 gallons of water on it and look at the output with a 16 bit A/D converter. Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Channel" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:43 AM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input > Hi Folks, In the past I have used 38ga copper wire for making standard > magnet coils. I have a friend who gave me a spool of 40ga copper magnet > wire, approx 1lb. > This is not "paired" wire. It is a single strand of coated, magnet wire. > This is very very fine wire. I have not used it to wrap a coil, but I > think I could if I was careful. Obviously it can break easily. I do > believe this is was purchased at a Army Navy surplus store. > > Happy to share this wire, I will never use it all. I am not sure how > share it, but I am open to suggestions. One method would be to send me a > empty spool, and instruct me as to how many wrap to apply to it? > > On a different subject............for those interested.........The vertical, > wall mounted sensor, I call the "Vertical Mount, Garden gate, Horizontal > Seismic Sensor" VGHS, which is mostly like a Lehman, but mounts to the > wall, using a single vertical mechanism, is operating perfectly. I have > not adjusted it in several months, and it is recording very well. I have > it set to 22 seconds. > I have a .pdf file to share. > > Cheers, > Ted > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoffrey" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 9:20 PM > Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input > > >> Hello Chris, >> >> I have in the past ( like 1970s ) >> seen wire that is "like" 40 guage paired >> magnet wire which was designed >> to be used with expendable >> bathythermograph probes. >> ( make a temp profile of the ocean waters ) >> >> I have never seen such wire >> available to anything but >> government. >> >> have you ever seen such wire in any >> guage at all ? >> >> Maybe its not even copper >> If I know Govt it might be silver wire >> but i think it looked copper. >> >> Lets say twin 30 gauge copper wire >> which is enameled on a 1000 or more foot >> spool ? >> >> I would think this be the right kind of wire >> to make a center tapped sensor coil ? >> >> regards, >> geoff >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:26 PM >> Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input >> >> >>> In a message dated 06/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: >>> >>> What i mean is a coil like a center tapped inductor >>> >>> +.......| >>> C >>> O >>> Gnd.....| >>> I >>> L >>> -.......| >>> >>> CO part and the IL part have to be identical. I do not know if you can >>> wind such a thing all at once or need two identical yet seperate coil >>> magnet assemblies. >>> Hi Geoff, >>> >>> You can wind it quite easily using two supply reels winding on both >>> wires at the same time. >>> >>> Forget the amplifier part altogether, use what you want. >>> The ordinary single opamp with four resistors will allow you to wind >>> a single coil and use an amplifier of that type. >>> >>> I have never built such a singular thing and can only guess where to >>> begin. >>> >>> I do know that inital signal strength and signal to noise ratio is >>> paramount for any sensor at all and not just for areas of our own >>> interest. >>> >>> Easiest way to get a good signal to noise ratio seems to be to use a two >>> ton (avd.) mass instead of a two pound (avd.) one. The highest density >>> material you can afford. >>> That is not neccessary or desirable. >>> >>> Superconducting wire sounds ideal yet none at room temp as far as I >>> know. >>> There is none and unlikely to be any in the future. >>> >>> At the moment i am thinking two of your coil/magnet ideas in additive >>> fashion connected to the same mass. >>> Two coils should double the signal right from the start. Four would >>> quadruple it. >>> >>> >>> You usually do better by doubling the number of turns on a coil. A large >>> increase in the output can be readily achieved by using thicker NdFeB >>> magnets, rather than by using more turns on the coil. The limit is set >>> by diamagnetic forces on the copper wire at the edges of the magnets. >>> Copper wire varies in it's magnetic properties. >>> If you use a true differential amplifier like the INA118 with a >>> double wound coil, you can use finer wire since the coil resistance is >>> not so important. Calculate the kT noise voltage in the coil. Regards, >>> >>> Chris Chapman >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the >> message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Ham radio interference From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:00:30 -0600 Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference while transmitting --- my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and Icon 207 low band filtering, torroids on in power and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods .... only about 20 ft from a lake antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten meters at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted V my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic induction, Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and grounded outside again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with isolation and battery backup. When I transmit on any band. drifting of the base line display occurs and spikes appear. I used to run 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but abandoned that after 25 yrs when I couldn't cure this problem. I recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still the interference is there! Any suggestions? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:17:48 +0000 Hi, You need to shield your cables properly. The reason why you are getting a raido interferience is because of poor shielding around your cables. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2010-02-20 at 11:00 -0600, Thomas Dick wrote: > Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference while=20 > transmitting --- > my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and Icon = 207 > low band filtering, torroids on in power=20 > and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods=20 > ... only about 20 ft from a lake > antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten meters=20 > at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted V >=20 > my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic induction,=20 > Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and grounded outside=20 > again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with isolation and=20 > battery backup. >=20 >=20 > When I transmit on any band. drifting of the base line display occurs=20 > and spikes appear. I used to run 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but=20 > abandoned that after 25 yrs when I couldn't cure this problem. I=20 > recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still=20 > the interference is there! Any suggestions? > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: AHrubetz@....... Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:18:28 EST I don't know what your soil type is, but at my lake house I have a horizontal loop among the pine trees. The soil is sandy, so a ground stake would offer too much resistance. I ran a ground wire from the feed line balun at the base of a pine tree out about 40 feet to the lake. Then, I tied a brick around the end of the ground wire and threw it into the lake. Couldn't ask for a better ground than that. You might try that to extend your grounds, and see what happens, since you're only 20' away from the lake. Al In a message dated 2/20/2010 11:00:10 A.M. Central Standard Time, dickthomas01@............. writes: Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference while transmitting --- my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and Icon 207 low band filtering, torroids on in power and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods .... only about 20 ft from a lake antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten meters at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted V my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic induction, Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and grounded outside again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with isolation and battery backup. When I transmit on any band. drifting of the base line display occurs and spikes appear. I used to run 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but abandoned that after 25 yrs when I couldn't cure this problem. I recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still the interference is there! Any suggestions? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

I don't know what your soil type is, but at my= lake=20 house I have a horizontal loop among the pine trees. The soil= is=20 sandy, so a ground stake would offer too much resistance. = =20 I ran a ground wire from the feed line balun at the base of a pine tr= ee out=20 about 40 feet to the lake. Then, I tied a brick around the end of th= e=20 ground wire and threw it into the lake. Couldn't ask for a better gr= ound=20 than that. You might try that to extend your grounds, and see what= =20 happens, since you're only 20' away from the lake.

In a message dated 2/20/2010 11:00:10 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 dickthomas01@............. writes:

Anyone=20 got some suggestions; experiencing interference while
transmitting= =20 ---
&n= bsp;=20 my ham radio setup; FT101, FT75= 7 and=20 Icon 207
&nbs= p;=20 low band filtering, torr= oids=20 on in power
and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods=20
... &n= bsp;=20 only about 20 ft from a lake
antennas; ve= rtical=20 for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten meters
at 80 feet, 160= =20 meter, 80-40 inverted V

my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans,= AS1=20 with magnetic induction,
Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal= cases=20 and grounded outside
again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones= ..=20 with isolation and
battery backup.

When I transmit on any= band.=20 drifting of the base line display occurs
and spikes appear. I used= to run=20 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but
abandoned that after 25 yrs= when I=20 couldn't cure this problem. I
recently put up the 80-40 meter antenn= a and=20 have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still
the interference is there! Any=20 suggestions?
________________________________________________________= __

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email=20 PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first lin= e=20 only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mo= re=20 information.

Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:28:29 -0600 Thomas, I wished I knew an answer. When I was living up in Arkansas, both my HF and VHF antennas were in close proximity to my instruments and connecting cables. Either mode caused interference while transmitting. Since then, I have moved back to Texas and have just recently got my antennas back up. Now, I do not get interference on HF, but do when on VHF. The HF is a vertical mounted on a chain link fence about 75 ft away, but the dual-ban VHF/UHF antenna is loser mounted on the house. From that experience, I can only assume that the closer the antenna, the more likelihood of RF interference! Furthermore, I only have one vertical seismic instrument, located within the house, and shorter run of connecting cables. Sorry that I do not have an answer, but possibly some clues. Do you think that winding a coil in your seismic leads would act as a choke? Regards, Jerry AB5R -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Dick To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Ham radio interference Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference while transmitting --- my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and Icon 207 low band filtering, torroids on in power and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods ... only about 20 ft from a lake antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten meters at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted V my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic induction, Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and grounded outside again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with isolation and battery backup. When I transmit on any band. drifting of the base line display occurs and spikes appear. I used to run 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but abandoned that after 25 yrs when I couldn't cure this problem. I recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still the interference is there! Any suggestions? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Thomas, I wished I knew an answer. When I was living up in = Arkansas,=20 both my HF and VHF antennas were in close proximity to my instruments = and=20 connecting cables. Either mode caused interference while=20 transmitting.

Since then, I have moved back to Texas and have just recently got = my=20 antennas back up. Now, I do not get interference on HF, but do = when on=20 VHF. The HF is a vertical mounted on a chain link fence about 75 = ft away,=20 but the dual-ban VHF/UHF antenna is loser mounted on the house.

From that experience, I can only assume that the closer the = antenna, the=20 more likelihood of RF interference! Furthermore, I only have one = vertical=20 seismic instrument, located within the house, and shorter run of = connecting=20 cables.

Sorry that I do not have an answer, but possibly some clues. = Do you=20 think that winding a coil in your seismic leads would act as a = choke?

Regards,

Jerry AB5R

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Thomas Dick

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Saturday, February 20, = 2010 11:00=20 AM

Subject: Ham radio = interference

Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference = while=20
transmitting=20 = ---
           =             &= nbsp;      =20 my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and Icon=20 = 207
           =             &= nbsp;      =20 low band filtering, torroids on in power
and grounds -- ground = uses 6 ft=20 copper coated rods=20 =
...           =             &= nbsp;   =20 only about 20 ft from a lake
antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 = feet,=20 ground plane for ten meters
at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted=20 V

my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic=20 induction,
Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and = grounded=20 outside
again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with = isolation=20 and
battery backup.

When I transmit on any band. = drifting of=20 the base line display occurs
and spikes appear. I used to run 400 = watts on=20 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but
abandoned that after 25 yrs when I = couldn't cure=20 this problem. I
recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a = 1:1.2=20 SWR.... still
the interference is there! Any=20 = suggestions?
_________________________________________________________= _

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: "Jim Santee" jsantee@............ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:39:55 -0800 Experiment with "by-pass" capacitors on the input to your seismic monitor. A good quality AC power line filter on both units - seismic and transceiver. One problem that you might check into is what is called "an elevated ground". This is where your transmitter is grounded, but not truly grounded - confusing YES!. I have had to chase grounding problems in complex communication systems and this be frustrating. You start by making sure you have good quality grounding straps - I use the term straps to indicate 1" wide tinned copper braid or 1/16" thick x 1" wide flat copper stock in lieu of just a piece of wire. Fine stranded welding cable or high quality automobile battery straps have been used for grounding applications. Circular grounding wires can sometimes "radiate" and cause interference. Each and every grounding point needs to be cleaned and "no corrode" contact improver smeared on the connection points. You can get "no corrode" at electrical supply houses. Power companies and electrical contractors use this all the time. Now for the fun stuff: When you connect grounds, or any else for that matter - make sure that you are not causing your own problems by using dissimilar metals. For example, don't mix carbon steel hardware with copper wire. In the 1970's a common practice in residential construction was to use cheap aluminum wire in lieu of copper. Over the years the aluminum wire expanded and contracted at different rate from the contacts on switches and outlets - this created a "high resistance" contact which later heated up and caused fires. Last summer I had help my neighbor on this same issue - she is lucky she did not have a house fire. Here is a grounding story that went bad by design: I use to work on marine radar systems. The system engineer never considered that "his" pride and joy would ever have a problem. It seems that the engineer ignored electrolysis - he spec's called for aluminum waveguide to be connected to brass waveguide with steel screws - all on a boat in a salt water environment. Within six weeks the entire assembly was corroded beyond repair. In another application on an aluminum hull vessel the engineer had an HF radio connected to the hull using a copper grounding strap with a steel bolt - this was a real mess and caused considerable damage to the hull. One point in closing: Power line ground is not always "ground" for RF purposes. Power line ground is for safety purposes only and not for RF. You may need to install your own ground rods. Jim __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Ham radio interference From: Jack Ivey ivey@.......... Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:42:29 -0500 It may be useful to add ferrite bead inductors in series with your signal=20 lines close to the amplifier. They will have no effect on the desired signal. The 6-hole beads seem to work well. Jack __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:13:29 -0600 Thanks J�n for comeback.... > You need to shield your cables properly. The reason why you are getting > a radio interference is because of poor shielding around your cables. > > I have fought it since ten meter days.I used Belden-M9636 CMB 6C24. I am told I could have done better but that is what I used. Equipment ground at each end. One piece is even surrounded with wire screen. At least one has a .01 capacitor acrossed the input coil ... no help. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:21:39 -0600 Thanks Al > *I don't know what your soil type is, but at my lake house I have a > horizontal loop among the pine trees. The soil is sandy, so a ground > stake would offer too much resistance. I ran a ground wire from the > feed line balun at the base of a pine tree out about 40 feet to the > lake. Then, I tied a brick around the end of the ground wire and > threw it into the lake. Couldn't ask for a better ground than that. > You might try that to extend your grounds, and see what happens, > since you're only 20' away from the lake.* > *Al* > Good point. The soil is clay and gravel here. And when I say twenty feet from the lake, I mean just that. I have a basement that is below ground water level. My house sits less than four feet above the surface of the lake. And I had a electronic dog fence that extended into the lake ... that wire is now part of the ground. The radio equipment is grounded separately from the seismic equipment. Wire size is #8 solid copper wire. The 80 ft tower is grounded as well. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:43:21 -0600 Thanks Jerry AB5R; Another interesting input ... you know 10 meters is fluky and running 400 watts was a pain. But I never run over about 100 watts on the low bands since I got rid of the repeater. The 10 meter antenna is at 80 ft and the 160meter antenna is right up theat while the 2 meter antenna is side mounted on the tower at about sixty feet ....so it is the fartherest from the seismic equipment which is in the basement. The 80-40 antenna is on the tower at about 35 ft. You jusr brought me to look at something. I use computer cable (Type CM 24 AWGE151955 CSA LL79189 TIA/E1A-568A) from the basement upstairs ....haven't gone WiFi with that computer yet. That may not be shielded. But that shouldn't show in the window on the recording computer ... by the way, I use VNC within my network so I can see the computer that is recording .... I use WinQuake and WinSDR > Since then, I have moved back to Texas and have just recently got my > antennas back up. Now, I do not get interference on HF, but do when > on VHF. The HF is a vertical mounted on a chain link fence about 75 > ft away, but the dual-ban VHF/UHF antenna is loser mounted on the house. > > > > Regards, > Jerry AB5R I have heard that grounds in Texas soils are hard to come by. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:08:17 -0600 Again good points .... Jim Santee: > Experiment with "by-pass" capacitors on the input to your seismic monitor. My coils are 220v relay coils. I have at least one unit with the .01 capacitor on it. I will check the rest. I don't think the AS-1 has any. I also used 1/4 inch metal square fencing to make a cage to put around one of the units. > A good quality AC power line filter on both units - seismic and > transceiver. One problem that you might check into is what is called > "an elevated ground". I have heard of that. Will check I have four six foot copper coated rods in the ground. I don't remember what kind of wire is on the tower ..but I know it IS grounded. Strange though ..... I have been hit by lightning twice. It cause over a $1000 damage to TV sets on the cable system in the house (I think this was induced current coming in on the cable line) In both cases, witnesses described "ball" lightning rolling off the ends of the guy wires that are attached to four inch metal posts at the four ends of my lot. The ball lightning traveled at least fifty feet along the ground. The first hit took out the commercial grade antenna at the top which vaporized a #8 wire coil. Neither damaged my radio equipment.... It did blow a small transistor in the 10 meter repeater identifier. > This is where your transmitter is grounded, but not truly grounded - > confusing YES!. I have had to chase grounding problems in complex > communication systems and this be frustrating. You start by making > sure you have good quality grounding straps - I use the term straps to > indicate 1" wide tinned copper braid or 1/16" thick x 1" wide flat > copper stock in lieu of just a piece of wire. Fine stranded welding > cable or high quality automobile battery straps have been used for > grounding applications. Circular grounding wires can sometimes > "radiate" and cause interference. Each and every grounding point needs > to be cleaned and "no corrode" contact improver smeared on the > connection points. You can get "no corrode" at electrical supply > houses. Power companies and electrical contractors use this all the time. > > Now for the fun stuff: When you connect grounds, or any else for that > matter - make sure that you are not causing your own problems by using > dissimilar metals. For example, don't mix carbon steel hardware with > copper wire. In the 1970's a common practice in residential > construction was to use cheap aluminum wire in lieu of copper. Over > the years the aluminum wire expanded and contracted at different rate > from the contacts on switches and outlets - this created a "high > resistance" contact which later heated up and caused fires. Last > summer I had help my neighbor on this same issue - she is lucky she > did not have a house fire. My house was built in 1946. All wiring to the ham rig area is new ... 30 amp to a new meter system. > > > Here is a grounding story that went bad by design: I use to work on > marine radar systems. The system engineer never considered that "his" > pride and joy would ever have a problem. It seems that the engineer > ignored electrolysis - he spec's called for aluminum waveguide to be > connected to brass waveguide with steel screws - all on a boat in a > salt water environment. Within six weeks the entire assembly was > corroded beyond repair. In another application on an aluminum hull > vessel the engineer had an HF radio connected to the hull using a > copper grounding strap with a steel bolt - this was a real mess and > caused considerable damage to the hull. > I used to own a 36 ft CrisCraft boat ..... the last year they made wooden hulls (1969). I wouldn't own an aluminum hull. I had enough trouble with the battery charger pitting the bronze propeller blades. > One point in closing: Power line ground is not always "ground" for RF > purposes. Power line ground is for safety purposes only and not for > RF. You may need to install your own ground rods. > Thanks for your input!! __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:10:12 -0600 Jack Ivey wrote: > It may be useful to add ferrite bead inductors in series with your signal > lines close to the amplifier. They will have no effect on the desired > signal. The 6-hole beads seem to work well. > Thanks Jack for your reply. But what is a ferrite bead? I do use toroids? Maybe I'm not current enough> __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Ham radio interference From: Jack Ivey ivey@.......... Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:21:07 -0500 It's a ferrite core with one or more holes through it with wires threaded through them. It has lower distributed capacitance than a toroid, so sometimes does better than a toroid at HF and up. You can buy them in different materials for different frequency ranges. If you have a choice, pick the type that has highest=20 impedance near the interfering frequency. If you don't have a=20 choice, just use whetever you can get your hands on, it'll probably help. You can put them in series with the signal and return lines near=20 the connector in the box with your first stage of amplification. I also put them on any power supply lines coming into an amplifier. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=3DM8694-ND Jack -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On= Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:10 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Ham radio interference Jack Ivey wrote: > It may be useful to add ferrite bead inductors in series with your signal= =20 > lines close to the amplifier. They will have no effect on the desired > signal. The 6-hole beads seem to work well. > =20 Thanks Jack for your reply. But what is a ferrite bead? I do use=20 toroids? Maybe I'm not current enough> __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: "James L. Gundersen" jgundie@....... Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:15:15 -0800 On 2/20/2010 9:00 AM, Thomas Dick wrote: > Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference while > transmitting --- > my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and > Icon 207 > low band filtering, torroids on in power > and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods > ... only about 20 ft from a lake > antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten > meters at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted V > > my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic induction, > Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and grounded outside > again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with isolation and > battery backup. > > > When I transmit on any band. drifting of the base line display occurs > and spikes appear. I used to run 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) > but abandoned that after 25 yrs when I couldn't cure this problem. I > recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still > the interference is there! Any suggestions? > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > My experience has been interference is usually caused by the interfering source getting into the most sensitive part of electronics, typically the input of input amplifier. A voltage difference of ~10 mVrms will "overload" the transistors (bipolar technology; MOS tech much less susceptible but they have diode protection in the amplifier's front ends) and literally be rectified (detected) creating a dc current at the RF modulation frequency. (With AM its an audio frequency inteference signal and FM probably a DC when transmitted). The trick in concept is to reduce the interference by adding inductance in series combined with capacitance to "ground" to eliminate the interference. The source impedance of the interference is usually around 50 to 200 ohms at the susceptible circuit level. A 1nf will give a shunting impedance of 1 ohm at 2M but only 44 ohms at 80M hence you'd like to use 10nf or more if the circuit's normal performance won't be affected. These caps can be differentially across the input or to a "ground" or better yet both. . I should also note that the "good" ground that is often referred to may elusive in some cases. The ferrite beads in series with the source of the interferenc (if you actually know what the source path is; usually the input wiring) like a low impedance to ground to work into. Most ferrite beads have too little impedance at 80M so you may need more of a ferrite core. I should also note that one inch of wire is about 0.5 ohms at 80M but 22 ohms at 2M in case you don't have experience with this problem. Conceptually you would like to put a metal enclosure around the electronics for the seismograph and have "good" filters on all the inputs and outputs including power at the walls of the unit. This will "guarantee" no EMI problems. With this approach you don't need a "ground" because the walls become the common reference point and in fact should be a good ground. I mention this because it might not be that hard for you to put the circuits inside an enclosure (metal box) and get the results you need. To get a little different perspective of the problem your dealing with and it may not be a "single" problem, your 400W transmitter has about 150 Vrms signal to the antenna and your seismograph is sensitive to 10 mV of interference. The translates into needing over a 100db of isolation. And since you are transmitting it means even a small loop of wiring (etch or etc) in the seismograph circuitry in the will be coupled into by the transmitted signal. If you have a scope, you can make a loop of wire (or a dipole too) and see what magnitude of signal your making in the air. Interference problems can be very difficult to solve sometimes even for "experts". Your problem can be solved depending on you options. If you continue to have problems we can go into the details of your problem more Good luck. Jim __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Digest from 02/20/2010 00:00:04 From: RSparks rsparks@.......... Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:01:46 -0800 Hello Tom, I also had this problem and never completely solved it, but I did have considerable success in reducing the level of interference. I began by thinking that the computer and A/D was probably the common point of seismic noise generation. Most likely by rectification by overloading at the first amplification of seismic signal. So, try to get the RF off the input lines from seismometers into the computer and A/D. First I wrapped my (about 12 foot long) shielded cable running from seismometer to A/D (Saum built outboard device) through a torroid as many times as could be wrapped in the about 1 1/2 inch I.D. of the torroid. I did the same with the cable from A/D to computer, leaving the A/D isolated between torroids. This helped. Next I went into the Saum device and put a 0.01 mmf capacitor between the input terminal and ground. That helped a lot more without reducing the seismic signal noticeably. I expect that with Larry's A/D, you would need to do this for each channel (only if it is not already provided by Larry). Before doing any soldering, I suggest trying various configurations using components clipped in with short alligator leads. In summary and retrospect, I think that I had an RF common mode current that was developed on the seismic cables when I transmitted. By common mode, I mean that the current was running on the shield of the wire between A/D and seismometer. This resulted in the A/D being positive when the seismometer was negative (alternating). Good Luck on curing the problem, Roger On 02-21-2010 12:00 AM, psn-l-digest-request@.............. wrote: > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 1 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Ham radio interference > From: Thomas Dick > Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:00:30 -0600 > > Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference while > transmitting --- > my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and Icon 207 > low band filtering, torroids on in power > and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods > ... only about 20 ft from a lake > antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten meters > at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted V > > my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic induction, > Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and grounded outside > again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with isolation and > battery backup. > > > When I transmit on any band. drifting of the base line display occurs > and spikes appear. I used to run 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but > abandoned that after 25 yrs when I couldn't cure this problem. I > recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still > the interference is there! Any suggestions? > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Orthogonal seismometer From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:29:57 EST Hi All, It seems to have gone rather quiet on the subject of seismometers lately. I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal pendulum broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years without problems. It consists of a short pendulum with a natural period of 1 second and supported by 4 leaf springs such that it has two degrees of freedom. The electronics gives the pendulum a period of 50 seconds and uses an LED attached to projects a spot of light onto a quadrant photo detector thus resolving an X and Y components. Orthogonal electromagnetic transducers hold the pendulum in a fixed position as in the broadband configuration. Examination of the P wave on an x-y plot gives a line of travel of the disturbance. If there is any interest I do have some photographs and a rough write up. I am not a computer publishing expert,so rough is the operative word. Martin Page

Hi All,

It seems to have gone rather quiet on the subject= of=20 seismometers lately.

I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal pendulum= =20 broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years without=20 problems.

It consists of a short pendulum with a natural period of 1 seco= nd and=20 supported by 4 leaf springs such that it has two degrees of freedom. The= =20 electronics gives the pendulum a period of 50 seconds and uses an LED atta= ched=20 to projects a spot of light onto a quadrant photo detector thus resolving= an X=20 and Y components.

Orthogonal electromagnetic transducers hold the pendulum in a fixed= =20 position as in the broadband configuration. Examination of the P wave on= an x-y=20 plot gives a line of travel of the disturbance.

If there is any interest I do have some photographs and a rough write= =20 up. I am not a computer publishing expert,so rough is the operative= =20 word.

Martin Page

Subject: Re: Orthogonal seismometer From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:09:04 +0000 Hi Martin, Please do post some pictures and an article!! Saludos, Angel On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 12:29 -0500, Tangazazen@....... wrote: > Hi All, > > It seems to have gone rather quiet on the subject of seismometers > lately. > I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal pendulum > broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years without > problems. > It consists of a short pendulum with a natural period of 1 second and > supported by 4 leaf springs such that it has two degrees of freedom. > The electronics gives the pendulum a period of 50 seconds and uses an > LED attached to projects a spot of light onto a quadrant photo > detector thus resolving an X and Y components. > Orthogonal electromagnetic transducers hold the pendulum in a fixed > position as in the broadband configuration. Examination of the P wave > on an x-y plot gives a line of travel of the disturbance. > > If there is any interest I do have some photographs and a rough write > up. I am not a computer publishing expert,so rough is the operative > word. > > > > Martin Page __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:49:08 EST In a message dated 20/02/2010, dickthomas01@............. writes: Any suggestions? Hi Tom, Sure. Put the amplifier and ADC inside an Al box with a screwed on lid / folds. Use twin core input cable with a braided copper screen. Connect the amplifier input zero line to the box and to the braided screen and earth the box separately. Connect the seismometer magnet frame to the braided screen to shield the coil. Preferably also earth the seismometer frame. You may find 0.01 mu F ceramic capacitor and a 50 Ohm resistor in series with the coil at the coil terminals will remove most of the RF pickup. Check that the cable length is not at a resonant frequency of the transmitter. You can also make quite good LC filters for the AC house power supply lines. I tend to make my own using larger L ferrite values than commercial filters. You can get feedback through these lines. Recognise that filters only give a reduction in the error signals. If you have too high a signal level, some will inevitably get through. You might try using soldered / earthed fencing netting on the ceiling of your cellar where the seismometers are located? I once tried to heat a 6" rotating test disk with a 3.5 MHz 3 kW power oscillator. It caused chart recorders with shorted inputs to go off scale on the other side of the laboratory. This convinced me to try heating the disk with a spiral heating coil off a kitchen cooker, which avoided the problems. Good Luck! Chris

In a message dated 20/02/2010, dickthomas01@............. writes:

Any=20 suggestions?

Hi Tom,

Sure. Put the amplifier and ADC inside an Al= box=20 with a screwed on lid / folds. Use twin core input cable with a braided co= pper=20 screen. Connect the amplifier input zero line to the box and to the= braided=20 screen and earth the box separately. Connect the seismometer magnet frame= to the=20 braided screen to shield the coil. Preferably also earth the seismome= ter=20 frame. You may find 0.01 mu F ceramic capacitor and a 50 Ohm resistor in= series=20 with the coil at the coil terminals will remove most of the RF pickup. Che= ck=20 that the cable length is not at a resonant frequency of the transmitter.

You can also make quite good LC fil= ters=20 for the AC house power supply lines. I tend to make my own using larg= er L=20 ferrite values than commercial filters. You can get feedback through= these=20 lines.

Recognise that filters only give a reduction= in the=20 error signals. If you have too high a signal level, some will inevitably= get=20 through. You might try using soldered / earthed fencing netting on the cei= ling=20 of your cellar where the seismometers are located?

I once tried to heat a 6" rotating test disk= with a=20 3.5 MHz 3 kW power oscillator. It caused chart recorders with shorted inpu= ts to=20 go off scale on the other side of the laboratory. This convinced me to try= =20 heating the disk with a spiral heating coil off a kitchen cooker, whi= ch=20 avoided the problems.

Good Luck!

Chris

Subject: Re: Orthogonal seismometer From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:50:56 EST In a message dated 21/02/2010, Tangazazen@....... writes: I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal pendulum broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years without problems. Hi Martin, Yes please! Regards, Chris

In a message dated 21/02/2010, Tangazazen@....... writes:

I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal pendulum= =20 broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years without= =20 problems.

Hi Martin,

Yes please!

Regards,

Chris

Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input - Wire From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:59:14 -0700 Would it be possible to use a single massive (ideal) wire like 1/4 inch in diameter with a magnet then increase the voltage to be sensed simply narrow the wire gradually to like 30 AWG wire in a current loop to act as a concentrator to boost the voltage ? Sort of like water through a pipe which narrows suddenly ? Is this silly ? It seems to me you can get considerable current using a single heavy wire, the trick is sensing that current which is essentially only one loop of a coil. ????? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input - Wire From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:10:40 -0500 Geoff, No. Although it might appear that sensitivity is related to wire size, it is actually related to the number of turns in the coil--and to get many turns in your coil you have to use small wire. Brett At 03:59 AM 2/22/2010, you wrote: >Would it be possible to use a >single massive (ideal) wire like 1/4 inch >in diameter with a magnet then >increase the voltage to be sensed >simply narrow the wire gradually >to like 30 AWG wire in a current loop >to act as a concentrator to boost the voltage ? >Sort of like water through a pipe >which narrows suddenly ? >Is this silly ? > >It seems to me you can get considerable current >using a single heavy wire, the trick is >sensing that current which is essentially >only one loop of a coil. > >????? >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Volcanic tremor From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:11:55 +0000 Hi all, I did record my first volcanic tremor on 20.02.2010 at 18:08 UTC. The orgin of this volcano tremor is a volcano named Gr=EDmsfj=F6ll. But it came close to erupting on Saturday. I am going to post this volcano tremor to the psn web page soon. But I have rather large backlog of files to review. So it might take some time until this happens. More on the volcano, http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=3D1703-01=3D Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Orthogonal seismometer From: "Juan" stauffer@................ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:26:10 -0430 Sounds very interesting to me. Please include photos and description ! = Thanh you, hans stauffer ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tangazazen@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Orthogonal seismometer=20 Hi All, It seems to have gone rather quiet on the subject of seismometers = lately.=20 I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal pendulum = broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years without = problems. It consists of a short pendulum with a natural period of 1 second and = supported by 4 leaf springs such that it has two degrees of freedom. The = electronics gives the pendulum a period of 50 seconds and uses an LED = attached to projects a spot of light onto a quadrant photo detector thus = resolving an X and Y components. Orthogonal electromagnetic transducers hold the pendulum in a fixed = position as in the broadband configuration. Examination of the P wave on = an x-y plot gives a line of travel of the disturbance. If there is any interest I do have some photographs and a rough write = up. I am not a computer publishing expert,so rough is the operative = word. Martin Page

Sounds very interesting to me. Please include photos and = description !=20 Thanh you, hans stauffer

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tangazazen@.......

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 = 12:59=20 PM

Subject: Orthogonal seismometer =

Hi All,

It seems to have gone rather quiet on the = subject of=20 seismometers lately.

I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal = pendulum=20 broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years = without=20 problems.

It consists of a short pendulum with a natural period of 1 = second=20 and supported by 4 leaf springs such that it has two degrees of = freedom. The=20 electronics gives the pendulum a period of 50 seconds and uses an LED = attached=20 to projects a spot of light onto a quadrant photo detector thus = resolving an X=20 and Y components.

Orthogonal electromagnetic transducers hold the pendulum in a = fixed=20 position as in the broadband configuration. Examination of the P wave = on an=20 x-y plot gives a line of travel of the disturbance.

If there is any interest I do have some photographs and a rough = write=20 up. I am not a computer publishing expert,so rough is the = operative=20 word.

Martin Page

Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:39:50 +0000 Hi all, I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and even volcanoes.=20 Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes because I have intrest in them. Regards,=20 --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:19:11 -0800 Jon, I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll start = here. I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and Brett Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice = that most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the hot = area around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean from = my location. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM To: PSN-Postlist Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? Hi all, I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and even volcanoes.=20 Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes because I have intrest in them. Regards,=20 --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:43:10 +0000 Hi Gary, Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that is why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer I can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtered at 2Hz. http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz.p= sn http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn.p= sn http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe.p= sn The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direction the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll start her= e. > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and Brett > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice that > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the hot a= rea > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean from m= y > location. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > To: PSN-Postlist > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and even > volcanoes.=20 >=20 > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > because I have intrest in them. >=20 > Regards,=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:06:48 -0800 Jon, Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. And = the Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and = high pass .02Hz. With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. The seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is updated every 10 minutes.=20 Gary =20 -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? Hi Gary, Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that is why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer I can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtered at 2Hz. http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps n http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps n http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps n The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direction the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll start here. > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and = Brett > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice = that > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the = hot area > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean = from my > location. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > To: PSN-Postlist > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and even > volcanoes.=20 >=20 > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > because I have intrest in them. >=20 > Regards,=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:56:34 +0000 Hi Gary, Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volcano in CA, USA ? You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor working out in those cases ? Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. And the > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and high > pass .02Hz. > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. The > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is updated > every 10 minutes.=20 > Gary >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that is > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer I > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. >=20 > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtered > at 2Hz. >=20 > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > n > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > n > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > n >=20 > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direction > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll start > here. > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and Bret= t > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice th= at > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the hot > area > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean from= my > > location. > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... ] > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > To: PSN-Postlist > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi all, > >=20 > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and even > > volcanoes.=20 > >=20 > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > > because I have intrest in them. > >=20 > > Regards,=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:31:00 -0800 Jon, The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent. A = few minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response without = the cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the unit = to calm down. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? Hi Gary, Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volcano in CA, USA ? You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor working out in those cases ? Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. And = the > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and = high > pass .02Hz. > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. The > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is = updated > every 10 minutes.=20 > Gary >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that = is > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer = I > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. >=20 > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtered > at 2Hz. >=20 > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > n > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > n > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > n >=20 > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direction > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll = start > here. > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and = Brett > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice that > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the = hot > area > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean = from my > > location. > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > To: PSN-Postlist > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi all, > >=20 > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and = geophones > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and = even > > volcanoes.=20 > >=20 > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > > because I have intrest in them. > >=20 > > Regards,=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:39:56 +0000 Hi Gary, Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite instrument like the one you have. At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent. A = few > minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response without th= e > cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the unit = to > calm down. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volcano > in CA, USA ? >=20 > You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor > working out in those cases ? >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. And t= he > > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and hi= gh > > pass .02Hz. > > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. The > > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is updated > > every 10 minutes.=20 > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... ] > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi Gary, > >=20 > > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that i= s > > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the > > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer I > > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. > >=20 > > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtered > > at 2Hz. > >=20 > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > > n > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > > n > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > > n > >=20 > > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direction > > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. > >=20 > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >=20 > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > Jon, > > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll start > > here. > > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and Br= ett > > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice > that > > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the h= ot > > area > > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean fr= om > my > > > location. > > > Gary > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............. om] > > On > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > > To: PSN-Postlist > > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > >=20 > > > Hi all, > > >=20 > > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophone= s > > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and eve= n > > > volcanoes.=20 > > >=20 > > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > > > because I have intrest in them. > > >=20 > > > Regards,=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:06:06 -0800 Jon, Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to = the open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it would calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:40 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? Hi Gary, Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite instrument like the one you have. At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent. = A few > minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response without = the > cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the = unit to > calm down. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any = volcano > in CA, USA ? >=20 > You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor > working out in those cases ? >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. = And the > > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and high > > pass .02Hz. > > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. = The > > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is = updated > > every 10 minutes.=20 > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi Gary, > >=20 > > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure = that is > > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is = the > > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz = seismometer I > > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. > >=20 > > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is = filtered > > at 2Hz. > >=20 > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > > n > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > > n > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > > n > >=20 > > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the = direction > > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. > >=20 > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >=20 > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > Jon, > > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll = start > > here. > > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and Brett > > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and = notice > that > > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this = the hot > > area > > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean from > my > > > location. > > > Gary > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > On > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > > To: PSN-Postlist > > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > >=20 > > > Hi all, > > >=20 > > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and = geophones > > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and = even > > > volcanoes.=20 > > >=20 > > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > > > because I have intrest in them. > > >=20 > > > Regards,=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:45:24 -0500 Gary, Did you completely remove the case and insulation or just unseal it? Without any protection at all, temperature change and air current effects are likely to be hugely greater than just those from the buoyancy variations. It looks pretty wild at the moment. I recall that when Dave was looking to observe pressure-change effects, he just uncaps the tire-valve port in the cover, but otherwise he leaves the seismo fully covered and insulated. Looks like when its sealed up it can perform really great. Brett At 09:06 PM 2/22/2010, you wrote: >Jon, >Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to the >open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it would >calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. >Gary __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:09:42 -0800 Brett, Right now I have the cover off. As you remember, this is in the wine cellar, very stable temperature. But I agree the response is wild. I have it disconnected (high gain) right now and will try it again a little later tonight. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Brett Nordgren Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 6:45 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? Gary, Did you completely remove the case and insulation or just unseal it? Without any protection at all, temperature change and air current effects are likely to be hugely greater than just those from the buoyancy variations. It looks pretty wild at the moment. I recall that when Dave was looking to observe pressure-change effects, he just uncaps the tire-valve port in the cover, but otherwise he leaves the seismo fully covered and insulated. Looks like when its sealed up it can perform really great. Brett At 09:06 PM 2/22/2010, you wrote: >Jon, >Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to the >open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it would >calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. >Gary __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:30:20 -0500 Gary At 10:09 PM 2/22/2010, you wrote: >Brett, >Right now I have the cover off. As you remember, this is in the wine cellar, >very stable temperature. Just to provide some perspective: With a 100 second instrument using a spring having a temperature coefficient (of elasticity) of -240 ppm/deg C, you will see a 1um/sec output shift--perhaps two lines on your helicorder plot, from a temperature change rate of 6 milli-degrees C per hour. Insulation is good. I think adding the 50 second high-pass will reduce that effect considerably, though rapid, small, temperature changes will still look big at the output. > But I agree the response is wild. I have it >disconnected (high gain) right now and will try it again a little later >tonight. Good luck, Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:26:14 +0000 Hi Gary, Did you get the resaults from it that you did want ? Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 18:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to th= e > open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it would > calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:40 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the > response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite > instrument like the one you have. >=20 > At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic > tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the > volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent. = A > few > > minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response without = the > > cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the uni= t > to > > calm down. > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... ] > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi Gary, > >=20 > > Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volcano > > in CA, USA ? > >=20 > > You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor > > working out in those cases ? > >=20 > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >=20 > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > Jon, > > > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. And > the > > > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and > high > > > pass .02Hz. > > > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. The > > > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > > > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is updat= ed > > > every 10 minutes.=20 > > > Gary > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............. om] > > On > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > > > To: psn-l@.............. > > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > >=20 > > > Hi Gary, > > >=20 > > > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that= is > > > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the > > > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer= I > > > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. > > >=20 > > > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtere= d > > > at 2Hz. > > >=20 > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > > > n > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > > > n > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > > > n > > >=20 > > > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the directio= n > > > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. > > >=20 > > > Regards, > > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > >=20 > > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > > Jon, > > > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll sta= rt > > > here. > > > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and > Brett > > > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notic= e > > that > > > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the > hot > > > area > > > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean > from > > my > > > > location. > > > > Gary > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > > On > > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > > > To: PSN-Postlist > > > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > > >=20 > > > > Hi all, > > > >=20 > > > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geopho= nes > > > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and e= ven > > > > volcanoes.=20 > > > >=20 > > > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > > > > because I have intrest in them. > > > >=20 > > > > Regards,=20 > > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > >=20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > >=20 > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > >=20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > >=20 > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:26:53 -0800 Hi Jon, I want to get a good clean display and will need another 12 hours and = then I'll put the cover back on. With you interest in volcanoes, have you = ever been to Hawaii and up to Volcanoes National Park and watched the = eruptions. They also have a nice earthquake research station there too. The lava is usually flowing. A few years ago I was at the area with lava flowing and = was there before sunrise and before the ranger was there and was able to see lava flow at my feet, really. It was all very safe. Gary =20 -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:26 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? Hi Gary, Did you get the resaults from it that you did want ? Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 18:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to = the > open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it = would > calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:40 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the > response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite > instrument like the one you have. >=20 > At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic > tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the > volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is = excellent. A > few > > minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response = without the > > cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the = unit > to > > calm down. > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi Gary, > >=20 > > Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any = volcano > > in CA, USA ? > >=20 > > You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor > > working out in those cases ? > >=20 > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >=20 > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > Jon, > > > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. = And > the > > > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz = and > high > > > pass .02Hz. > > > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. = The > > > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > > > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is updated > > > every 10 minutes.=20 > > > Gary > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > On > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > > > To: psn-l@.............. > > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > >=20 > > > Hi Gary, > > >=20 > > > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure = that is > > > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is = the > > > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz = seismometer I > > > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. > > >=20 > > > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is = filtered > > > at 2Hz. > > >=20 > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > > > n > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > > > n > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > > > n > > >=20 > > > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the = direction > > > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. > > >=20 > > > Regards, > > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > >=20 > > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > > Jon, > > > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll start > > > here. > > > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson = and > Brett > > > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and = notice > > that > > > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this = the > hot > > > area > > > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open = ocean > from > > my > > > > location. > > > > Gary > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > > On > > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > > > To: PSN-Postlist > > > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > > >=20 > > > > Hi all, > > > >=20 > > > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones > > > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, = and even > > > > volcanoes.=20 > > > >=20 > > > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording = earthquakes > > > > because I have intrest in them. > > > >=20 > > > > Regards,=20 > > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > >=20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > >=20 > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > >=20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > >=20 > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: ian ian@........... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:32:58 +0000 I use to live 20 miles from the volcano park. I too have had the lava at my feet but with a relaxed ranger! It was very slow flowing. I used to monitor the daily acrobatics of the volcanoes with my 4.5 Hz geophone. I assume Tony is still in nearby Kona. Cheers Ian Gary Lindgren wrote: > Hi Jon, > I want to get a good clean display and will need another 12 hours and then > I'll put the cover back on. With you interest in volcanoes, have you ever > been to Hawaii and up to Volcanoes National Park and watched the eruptions. > They also have a nice earthquake research station there too. The lava is > usually flowing. A few years ago I was at the area with lava flowing and was > there before sunrise and before the ranger was there and was able to see > lava flow at my feet, really. It was all very safe. > Gary > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of J�n Fr�mann > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:26 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > Hi Gary, > > Did you get the resaults from it that you did want ? > > Regards, > J�n Fr�mann. > > On m�n, 2010-02-22 at 18:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > >> Jon, >> Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to the >> open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it would >> calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. >> Gary >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... >> > On > >> Behalf Of J�n Fr�mann >> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:40 PM >> To: psn-l@.............. >> Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >> >> Hi Gary, >> >> Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the >> response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite >> instrument like the one you have. >> >> At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic >> tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the >> volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. >> >> Regards, >> J�n Fr�mann. >> >> On m�n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: >> >>> Jon, >>> The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent. A >>> >> few >> >>> minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response without >>> > the > >>> cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the unit >>> >> to >> >>> calm down. >>> Gary >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... >>> >> On >> >>> Behalf Of J�n Fr�mann >>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM >>> To: psn-l@.............. >>> Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >>> >>> Hi Gary, >>> >>> Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volcano >>> in CA, USA ? >>> >>> You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor >>> working out in those cases ? >>> >>> Regards, >>> J�n Fr�mann. >>> >>> On m�n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: >>> >>>> Jon, >>>> Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. And >>>> >> the >> >>>> Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and >>>> >> high >> >>>> pass .02Hz. >>>> With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. The >>>> seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See >>>> http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is >>>> > updated > >>>> every 10 minutes. >>>> Gary >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: psn-l-request@.............. >>>> > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > >>> On >>> >>>> Behalf Of J�n Fr�mann >>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM >>>> To: psn-l@.............. >>>> Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >>>> >>>> Hi Gary, >>>> >>>> Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that >>>> > is > >>>> why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the >>>> absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer >>>> > I > >>>> can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. >>>> >>>> Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtered >>>> at 2Hz. >>>> >>>> >>>> > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz.ps > >>>> n >>>> >>>> > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn.ps > >>>> n >>>> >>>> > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe.ps > >>>> n >>>> >>>> The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direction >>>> the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> J�n Fr�mann. >>>> >>>> On m�n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jon, >>>>> I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll >>>>> > start > >>>> here. >>>> >>>>> I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and >>>>> >> Brett >> >>>>> Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice >>>>> >>> that >>> >>>>> most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the >>>>> >> hot >> >>>> area >>>> >>>>> around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean >>>>> >> from >> >>> my >>> >>>>> location. >>>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: psn-l-request@.............. >>>>> >> [mailto:psn-l-request@............... >> >>>> On >>>> >>>>> Behalf Of J�n Fr�mann >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM >>>>> To: PSN-Postlist >>>>> Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and >>>>> > geophones > >>>>> here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and >>>>> > even > >>>>> volcanoes. >>>>> >>>>> Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes >>>>> because I have intrest in them. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>>> >>>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >>>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>>> >>>> >>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>>> >>>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >>>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>>> >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>> >>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>> >>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Header Data Extraction tool From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:57:03 -0500 Hello all, A while back a couple of people expressed a wish for some way to extract parameters from the headers of event files into a spreadsheet. I was recently looking for an idea for a "kindergarden level" project to try to learn how to build a Windows application in Visual C++. I wound up writing a little tool that meets this need, albeit in a fairly crude way. The tool will examine the header data from one or more PSN event data files and generate a file that contains user selected parameters from each event file. The resulting file is a tab delimited .txt file that is readable by most spreadsheets (eg. Excel) and database programs. I think the program probably has more value as a training project than as a serious tool, but if anyone would like to try it out, I'd be happy to send you a copy to play with. Larry Conklin Liverpool, NY lconklin@............ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Header Data Extraction tool From: "Joe & Betty Lincoln" joe@................. Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:00:38 -0600 Please send me a copy Larry. Just what I need for my website SQL archives. Thanks, Joe Lincoln SPRING, TX -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Larry Conklin Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:57 AM To: PSN List Subject: Header Data Extraction tool Hello all, A while back a couple of people expressed a wish for some way to extract parameters from the headers of event files into a spreadsheet. I was recently looking for an idea for a "kindergarden level" project to try to learn how to build a Windows application in Visual C++. I wound up writing a little tool that meets this need, albeit in a fairly crude way. The tool will examine the header data from one or more PSN event data files and generate a file that contains user selected parameters from each event file. The resulting file is a tab delimited .txt file that is readable by most spreadsheets (eg. Excel) and database programs. I think the program probably has more value as a training project than as a serious tool, but if anyone would like to try it out, I'd be happy to send you a copy to play with. Larry Conklin Liverpool, NY lconklin@............ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:44:48 +0000 Hi Gary, I have not been to Hawaii, as I cannot afford it at the moment. The Hawaii volcano is a slow lava, it comes forward slowly and does the damage when it comes down. The volcanoes in Iceland are the most common types. The one that are like the one in Hawaii and the one that makes a ash clould. Sometimes that is a mixture of both. With my first ever harmonic tremor recorded this weekend. I know that my plots are going to look intresting the Hekla volcano starts erupting. But my Heklubygg=F0 seismomiter is only about ~12km away from that volcano. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On =FEri, 2010-02-23 at 08:26 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Hi Jon, > I want to get a good clean display and will need another 12 hours and the= n > I'll put the cover back on. With you interest in volcanoes, have you ever > been to Hawaii and up to Volcanoes National Park and watched the eruption= s. > They also have a nice earthquake research station there too. The lava is > usually flowing. A few years ago I was at the area with lava flowing and = was > there before sunrise and before the ranger was there and was able to see > lava flow at my feet, really. It was all very safe. > Gary >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:26 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Did you get the resaults from it that you did want ? >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 18:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to = the > > open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it woul= d > > calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... ] > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:40 PM > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi Gary, > >=20 > > Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the > > response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite > > instrument like the one you have. > >=20 > > At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic > > tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the > > volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. > >=20 > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >=20 > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > Jon, > > > The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent= .. A > > few > > > minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response withou= t > the > > > cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the u= nit > > to > > > calm down. > > > Gary > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............. om] > > On > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM > > > To: psn-l@.............. > > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > >=20 > > > Hi Gary, > > >=20 > > > Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volca= no > > > in CA, USA ? > > >=20 > > > You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor > > > working out in those cases ? > > >=20 > > > Regards, > > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > >=20 > > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > > Jon, > > > > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. A= nd > > the > > > > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz an= d > > high > > > > pass .02Hz. > > > > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. T= he > > > > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > > > > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is > updated > > > > every 10 minutes.=20 > > > > Gary > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > =20 > > > >=20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > > On > > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > > > > To: psn-l@.............. > > > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > > >=20 > > > > Hi Gary, > > > >=20 > > > > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure th= at > is > > > > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is t= he > > > > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismomet= er > I > > > > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. > > > >=20 > > > > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filte= red > > > > at 2Hz. > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > > > > n > > > > > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > > > > n > > > > > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > > > > n > > > >=20 > > > > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direct= ion > > > > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. > > > >=20 > > > > Regards, > > > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > > >=20 > > > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > > > Jon, > > > > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll > start > > > > here. > > > > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson an= d > > Brett > > > > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and not= ice > > > that > > > > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this t= he > > hot > > > > area > > > > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocea= n > > from > > > my > > > > > location. > > > > > Gary > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. > > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > > > > To: PSN-Postlist > > > > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > > > >=20 > > > > > Hi all, > > > > >=20 > > > > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and > geophones > > > > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and > even > > > > > volcanoes.=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > > > > > because I have intrest in them. > > > > >=20 > > > > > Regards,=20 > > > >=20 > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > >=20 > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >=20 > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > >=20 > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >=20 > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > >=20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > >=20 > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > >=20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > >=20 > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:57:23 +0000 Hi Ian, How did the harmonic tremor show up on 4.5Hz geophone ? I now have clues what to look for because of the volcano earthquake on the 20.02.2010. But I am yet to record a harmonic tremor. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On =FEri, 2010-02-23 at 16:32 +0000, ian wrote: > I use to live 20 miles from the volcano park. I too have had the lava=20 > at my feet but with a relaxed ranger! It was very slow flowing. >=20 > I used to monitor the daily acrobatics of the volcanoes with my 4.5 Hz=20 > geophone. I assume Tony is still in nearby Kona. >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Ian >=20 > Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > I want to get a good clean display and will need another 12 hours and t= hen > > I'll put the cover back on. With you interest in volcanoes, have you ev= er > > been to Hawaii and up to Volcanoes National Park and watched the erupti= ons. > > They also have a nice earthquake research station there too. The lava i= s > > usually flowing. A few years ago I was at the area with lava flowing an= d was > > there before sunrise and before the ranger was there and was able to se= e > > lava flow at my feet, really. It was all very safe. > > Gary > > > > > > =20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... ] On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:26 AM > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > > > Hi Gary, > > > > Did you get the resaults from it that you did want ? > > > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 18:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > =20 > >> Jon, > >> Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to= the > >> open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it wou= ld > >> calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. > >> Gary > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@.............. m] > >> =20 > > On > > =20 > >> Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:40 PM > >> To: psn-l@.............. > >> Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >> > >> Hi Gary, > >> > >> Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the > >> response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite > >> instrument like the one you have. > >> > >> At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic > >> tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the > >> volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. > >> > >> Regards, > >> J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >> > >> On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > >> =20 > >>> Jon, > >>> The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent= .. A > >>> =20 > >> few > >> =20 > >>> minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response withou= t > >>> =20 > > the > > =20 > >>> cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the u= nit > >>> =20 > >> to > >> =20 > >>> calm down. > >>> Gary > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............. om] > >>> =20 > >> On > >> =20 > >>> Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM > >>> To: psn-l@.............. > >>> Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >>> > >>> Hi Gary, > >>> > >>> Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volca= no > >>> in CA, USA ? > >>> > >>> You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor > >>> working out in those cases ? > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >>> > >>> On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > >>> =20 > >>>> Jon, > >>>> Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. An= d > >>>> =20 > >> the > >> =20 > >>>> Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and > >>>> =20 > >> high > >> =20 > >>>> pass .02Hz. > >>>> With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. Th= e > >>>> seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > >>>> http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is > >>>> =20 > > updated > > =20 > >>>> every 10 minutes.=20 > >>>> Gary > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> =20 > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: psn-l-request@.............. > >>>> =20 > > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > =20 > >>> On > >>> =20 > >>>> Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > >>>> To: psn-l@.............. > >>>> Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >>>> > >>>> Hi Gary, > >>>> > >>>> Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure tha= t > >>>> =20 > > is > > =20 > >>>> why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is th= e > >>>> absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismomete= r > >>>> =20 > > I > > =20 > >>>> can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. > >>>> > >>>> Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filter= ed > >>>> at 2Hz. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> =20 > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hk= bz.ps > > =20 > >>>> n > >>>> > >>>> =20 > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hk= bn.ps > > =20 > >>>> n > >>>> > >>>> =20 > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hk= be.ps > > =20 > >>>> n > >>>> > >>>> The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the directi= on > >>>> the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >>>> > >>>> On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > >>>> =20 > >>>>> Jon, > >>>>> I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll > >>>>> =20 > > start > > =20 > >>>> here. > >>>> =20 > >>>>> I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and > >>>>> =20 > >> Brett > >> =20 > >>>>> Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notic= e > >>>>> =20 > >>> that > >>> =20 > >>>>> most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the > >>>>> =20 > >> hot > >> =20 > >>>> area > >>>> =20 > >>>>> around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean > >>>>> =20 > >> from > >> =20 > >>> my > >>> =20 > >>>>> location. > >>>>> Gary > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: psn-l-request@.............. > >>>>> =20 > >> [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > >> =20 > >>>> On > >>>> =20 > >>>>> Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > >>>>> To: PSN-Postlist > >>>>> Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> > >>>>> I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and > >>>>> =20 > > geophones > > =20 > >>>>> here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and > >>>>> =20 > > even > > =20 > >>>>> volcanoes.=20 > >>>>> > >>>>> Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > >>>>> because I have intrest in them. > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards,=20 > >>>>> =20 > >>>> __________________________________________________________ > >>>> > >>>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >>>> > >>>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > >>>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >>>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> __________________________________________________________ > >>>> > >>>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >>>> > >>>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > >>>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >>>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >>>> =20 > >>> __________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >>> > >>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > >>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >>> > >>> > >>> __________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >>> > >>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > >>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >>> =20 > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > =20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: ian ian@........... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:56:23 +0000 Hi, I'm not sure what the answer is but I posted a few local volcano tremours to psn in 2001. For instance, see http://www.webtronics.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/0105/010512a.hl1.psn and the data file is at http://www.webtronics.com/quakes/0105/010512a.hl1.psn You can also search the records for 2001 with station id hl1. I found 4 this way. I suspect I posted more but perhaps the search function isn't perfect. Tony at Quakekona posted much more and was way better than I was. Cheers Ian __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:31:59 +0000 Hi Ian, There are three types of earthquakes. Normal high frequancy events that happen when the crust breaks. We usally get those all the time. Then there are the volcano type of earthquakes, that happen just before a volcano starts a eruption, here is a good sample of such earthquake that I did record last weekend. This trance is filtered at 2Hz, http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe.p= sn http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn.p= sn http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz.p= sn Then there is the harmonic tremor that can be seen when magma is pushing up trugh the crust in a eruption. I have never seen those, but those how are living near a activie volcano that is erupting should see all the time. I don't know how well 4.5Hz geophone can pickup such tremors. But I do know that I am going to get a answer to that question soon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_tremor http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/glossary/?term=3Dharmonic%20tremor Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On =FEri, 2010-02-23 at 19:56 +0000, ian wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I'm not sure what the answer is but I posted a few local volcano=20 > tremours to psn in 2001. For instance, see=20 > http://www.webtronics.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/0105/010512a.hl1.ps= n=20 > and the data file is at=20 > http://www.webtronics.com/quakes/0105/010512a.hl1.psn >=20 > You can also search the records for 2001 with station id hl1. I found 4=20 > this way. I suspect I posted more but perhaps the search function isn't=20 > perfect. Tony at Quakekona posted much more and was way better than I wa= s. >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Ian >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:52:09 -0700 Hello Mr. J�n Fr�mann, Earthquake waves are not a whole lot different than sound waves and behave fairly similar. I am most interested in the detection and recording of these waves than anything else. It is a way to pass the time while having a minimum of contact with human life which always seem to want me locked up. The USA is not a nice place like other people may have told you. It is a place where they want to get rid of you one way or another if you are not exactly like they are. ( Stand Aside Adolph Hitler, America is now here ) I served to become a vietnam veteran honorably and returned home to find I hated my own people worse than any foreigner who does not know or care that I exist. There are no rights here. They can lock you up any time they want for just about any reason they want. In the USA, To be accused is to be guilty. Frankly, my people here in the USA ( USA CITIZENS ) invent their own enemies. They deserve the terror they are afraid of. The constitution and its amendments actually are not enforced to even the tiniest degree. No Miranda rights anymore. If you are single white male ( possibly black oe oriental too ) It is best to climb into a hole and avoid the type "A" personalities because otherwise you will need a weapon of mass destruction just to make a simple point you want those puppet masters to all keep their distance. I tell you this simply because its the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. ( I believe in no god/gods or devil/devils ) Try to find a career and a life of your own after some stupid doctor (PHD holder and not medical doctor ) labels/blacklists you as being mentally ill ( which is no crime ) More than likely you will be a street person. Stupid Americans confuse mental illness with insanity. Insanity is a legal, not a medical, term. This is my own purpose for being an Amature anything. I hope there are countries out there that do not force ways ( social expectations ) on type "B" people. A place where you can go from High School to grave under your own power. In whatever field of work is of most interest. Oh yes, by the way, International laws of first order countries do not allow emmigration of the mentally ill. Just like they do not allow emmigration of major criminals. For all intents and purposes the mentally ill are also felons. America, What a country. Sincerely, Geoffrey M. Voeth ----- Original Message ----- From: "J�n Fr�mann" To: "PSN-Postlist" Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:39 PM Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? Hi all, I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and even volcanoes. Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes because I have intrest in them. Regards, -- J�n Fr�mann J�nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Another FBV Seismometer From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:11:31 -0800 In August of 2008 I started to get interested in the Force Balance Vertical Seismometer design that Dave Nelson and Brett Nordgren were putting together. I completed my version of this fabulous seismometer in early December of last year. I put together a web site that describes the process I went through to achieve the end result. See http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Any feedback is most welcome. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com dtvtransitioninfo.blogspot.com Information on how to cope with the transition to DTV

In August of 2008 I started to get interested in = the Force Balance Vertical Seismometer design that Dave Nelson and Brett Nordgren = were putting together. I completed my version of this fabulous seismometer in early = December of last year. I put together a web site that describes the process I = went through to achieve the end result. See = http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Any feedback is most welcome.

Gary

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

650-326-0655<= /span>

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com &nbs= p; Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com =

dtvtransitioninfo.blogspot.com = ; Information on how to cope with the transition = to DTV

Subject: Re: Digest from 02/25/2010 00:00:36 From: RSparks rsparks@.......... Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 05:19:16 -0800 Hi Gary, Congratulations on your efforts. I always admire good workmanship and that is what is displayed here on several fronts. Thanks for making the web site available. I am curious about your FFTs. I assume that the source data was not filtered with software. Did you use WinQuake to generate the FFT displays? Your sample rate must have been near 100 sps? Roger On 02-26-2010 12:00 AM, psn-l-digest-request@.............. wrote: > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 1 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Another FBV Seismometer > From: "Gary Lindgren" > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:11:31 -0800 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_09C5_01CAB656.B8FB2570 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In August of 2008 I started to get interested in the Force Balance Vertical > Seismometer design that Dave Nelson and Brett Nordgren were putting > together. I completed my version of this fabulous seismometer in early > December of last year. I put together a web site that describes the process > I went through to achieve the end result. See > http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Any feedback is most > welcome. > > Gary > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Help me LEARN From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:04:57 -0600 After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve my question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short. So! Question: 1) Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays in WinQuake that both the Pb & Sb were seconds BEFORE the P & S times. To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I actually drop it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the "tables" being off? Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect? 2) Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a regional would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you experienced people use? Thanks & Best regards, Jerry

After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious = that I=20 know very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am = often=20 embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve my = question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short.

So! Question:

1) Today's trace of the = 3.1 event=20 in Oklahoma displays in WinQuake that both the=20 Pb & Sb were seconds=20 BEFORE the P & = S=20 times. To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I = actually drop=20 it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the "tables" = being=20 off? Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect?

2) Another "pause" that I have = when=20 using WinQuake of any event is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a = local=20 event would be short, a regional would be a little longer and a = teleseismic may=20 be over an hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb = time=20 that you experienced people use?

Thanks & Best regards,

Jerry

Subject: Re: Help me LEARN From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:54:06 -0600 GPayton wrote: > After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know > very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often > embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve > my question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short. > > So! Question: > > 1) Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays > in WinQuake that both the *Pb* & *Sb* were seconds *_BEFORE_* the *P* > & *S* times. To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I > actually drop it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the > "tables" being off? Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect? > > 2) Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event > is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a > regional would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an > hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you > experienced people use? > > Thanks & Best regards, > Jerry According to the St. Louis network > _http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html_ , this quake was not a good one ... they rated it as poor. I have followed their analysis faithfully and such a rate makes for some poor readings of the incoming times of wave types. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Digest from 02/25/2010 00:00:36 From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:58:51 -0800 Hi Roger, The FFT used the tool in WinQuake. And for the FFT plot I simply selected the trace that was displayed, so I did use filtered data (I'm assuming WinQuake uses the data displayed). The filter I'm using is a low pass of ..08Hz and a high pass of .02Hz. I am using 100 sps. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of RSparks Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:19 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Digest from 02/25/2010 00:00:36 Hi Gary, Congratulations on your efforts. I always admire good workmanship and that is what is displayed here on several fronts. Thanks for making the web site available. I am curious about your FFTs. I assume that the source data was not filtered with software. Did you use WinQuake to generate the FFT displays? Your sample rate must have been near 100 sps? Roger On 02-26-2010 12:00 AM, psn-l-digest-request@.............. wrote: > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 1 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Another FBV Seismometer > From: "Gary Lindgren" > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:11:31 -0800 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_09C5_01CAB656.B8FB2570 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In August of 2008 I started to get interested in the Force Balance Vertical > Seismometer design that Dave Nelson and Brett Nordgren were putting > together. I completed my version of this fabulous seismometer in early > December of last year. I put together a web site that describes the process > I went through to achieve the end result. See > http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Any feedback is most > welcome. > > Gary > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Help me LEARN From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:09:34 -0600 Yes, I noticed that too from the USGS post: "M-type="Nuttli" surface wave magnitude (mbLg), Version=7." But, I was still concerned about MY post. That area has recently has numerous shallow events. Thanks Thomas. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Dick To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:54 AM Subject: Re: Help me LEARN GPayton wrote: > After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know > very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often > embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve > my question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short. > > So! Question: > > 1) Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays > in WinQuake that both the *Pb* & *Sb* were seconds *_BEFORE_* the *P* > & *S* times. To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I > actually drop it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the > "tables" being off? Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect? > > 2) Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event > is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a > regional would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an > hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you > experienced people use? > > Thanks & Best regards, > Jerry According to the St. Louis network > _http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html_ , this quake was not a good one ... they rated it as poor. I have followed their analysis faithfully and such a rate makes for some poor readings of the incoming times of wave types. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Yes, I noticed that too from the USGS post: "M-type=3D"Nuttli" = surface wave=20 magnitude (mbLg), Version=3D7." But,

I was still concerned about MY post. That area has recently = has=20 numerous shallow events.

Thanks Thomas.

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Thomas Dick

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 = 9:54=20 AM

Subject: Re: Help me = LEARN

GPayton wrote:
> After reading many posts on the = PSN Net,=20 it is obvious that I know
> very little as compared to MANY of = you out=20 there.   I am often
> embarrassed to ask a question = and turn=20 to the books to try to resolve
> my question(s). Even at = that,=20 many time I fall short.
>
> So! =20 Question:
>
>     = 1)   =20 Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays
> in = WinQuake=20 that both the *Pb* & *Sb* were seconds *_BEFORE_* the *P*
> = &=20 *S* times. To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I =
> actually drop it! What did I do wrong? Is this a = matter=20 of the
> "tables" being off? Or, am I wrong in assuming = it is=20 incorrect?
>
>     = 2)   =20 Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event
> = is HOW=20 LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a =
>=20 regional would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an =
>=20 hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time = that you=20
> experienced people use?
>
> Thanks & = Best=20 regards,
> Jerry
According to the St. Louis network
>=20 _http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html_
, = this=20 quake was not a good one ... they rated it as poor. I have =
followed their=20 analysis faithfully and such a rate makes for some poor
readings = of the=20 incoming times of wave=20 = types.
__________________________________________________________
<= BR>Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: RE: Help me LEARN From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:48:06 -0800 Hi Jerry, There is no such thing as a dumb question and it is OK to make mistakes. This list has always supported learning and that was one of the main purposes we developed the original BBS and Larry creating the first Website. I have a question. It may sound basic but it's just a thought. You don't record many local events I take it. Which table are you using to calc the P&S waves in Winquake? Open Winquake click on table and select the radial button "regional" in the lower right of the popup. As for the amount of data to cut. Check the PSN Redwood City website (Larry's) and look at the event files. Locate 100223.200336.ate That should give you an idea of the amount of data to save for a local event. The rule of thumb is you want to provide enough data so the background noise level can be established before the event occurred. On the backend of the event you don't want to chop off any seismic waves. For a local event start to end of the event is about 1.5 min. Winquake default is to trap 3 min. Poor ratings: The ratings are based on the data at the sites used for analysis. Your data may also be poor or it could be good. It depends on your location in relation to the epicenter and the direction of the energy and the instruments orientation N/S -- E/W -- Z in relationship to the event. I live near the San Andreas fault zone and there are times when the data is poor for many local on smaller events. Many times the assessment rating is an arbitrary judgment scale based on the assessment of the seismologist that reviewed the event file. UPLOAD DATA: I took a look at the PSN event files for this event and I only see two event files from JP3 and HZ3 in Texas. Have you posted any data to the event files? Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:54 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Help me LEARN GPayton wrote: > After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know > very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often > embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve > my question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short. > > So! Question: > > 1) Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays > in WinQuake that both the *Pb* & *Sb* were seconds *_BEFORE_* the *P* > & *S* times. To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I > actually drop it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the > "tables" being off? Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect? > > 2) Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event > is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a > regional would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an > hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you > experienced people use? > > Thanks & Best regards, > Jerry According to the St. Louis network > _http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html_ , this quake was not a good one ... they rated it as poor. I have followed their analysis faithfully and such a rate makes for some poor readings of the incoming times of wave types. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Radio Club - Public Seismic Network of San Jose - Speaker? From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:56:08 -0800 I checked with the usual suspects and we are all busy with work. Is there anybody in the Bay Area that would be willing to be a speaker? I just sent Scott a note last night telling him Jan, and Larry were also busy and could not make it. If anybody can help out please contact Scott via email and let him know. Thanks-- Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos CA -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Hammond [mailto:shammon1@.............. Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 9:18 AM To: 'Scott Emery' Subject: RE: Public Seismic Network of San Jose - Speaker? Hi, I have just started the semester teaching at two schools in the area so I'm forwarding your note onto to two guys that may have the time to speak. I'll let you know if they are interested once I hear from them. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Scott Emery [mailto:ad6ry@.......... Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:53 PM To: hammonds@......... Subject: Public Seismic Network of San Jose - Speaker? Professor Hammond, I am looking for someone who might speak on the Public Seismic Network of San Jose to West Valley Amateur Radio Association in San Jose. (http://wvara.org/meetings.html) I think that a talk covering the technical aspects of a seismic station and some of the challenges encountered in managing and distributing the data gathered would be of interest to the association. Would you recommend someone? Scott Emery ad6ry@......... __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Help me LEARN From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:11:36 +0000 Hi Jerry, I am used to record local events. I usally record 5 min worth of data for events up to 600 km away. For 601 to 2000 km I usally record around worth of 10 min data. Anything of more distance I use 40 min. But I usually estimate the data needed pr.earthquake. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On f=F6s, 2010-02-26 at 09:04 -0600, GPayton wrote: > After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know > very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often > embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve > my question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short. > =20 > So! Question: > =20 > 1) Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays > in WinQuake that both the Pb & Sb were seconds BEFORE the P & S times. > To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I actually drop > it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the "tables" being off? > Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect? > =20 > 2) Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event > is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a > regional would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an > hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you > experienced people use? > =20 > Thanks & Best regards, > Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Help me LEARN From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:21:17 -0600 Ahaaaa! I was not aware of that choice on the TABLE tab. That corrected my error! I truly appreciate your individual help and any others that may respond. Unfortunately, people like myself without formal background or training have to scratch to find answers; the results of some of which may be correct. The usage of WinQuake and WinSDR are thus difficult. The HELP supplies some information, some dated, but the WHY is not always answered. Perhaps I expect too much. I just want to learn and know as much as I can absorb. Unfortunately, at my age I don't retain as much as years ago! (smile) Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Hammond To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:48 AM Subject: RE: Help me LEARN Hi Jerry, There is no such thing as a dumb question and it is OK to make mistakes. This list has always supported learning and that was one of the main purposes we developed the original BBS and Larry creating the first Website. I have a question. It may sound basic but it's just a thought. You don't record many local events I take it. Which table are you using to calc the P&S waves in Winquake? Open Winquake click on table and select the radial button "regional" in the lower right of the popup. As for the amount of data to cut. Check the PSN Redwood City website (Larry's) and look at the event files. Locate 100223.200336.ate That should give you an idea of the amount of data to save for a local event. The rule of thumb is you want to provide enough data so the background noise level can be established before the event occurred. On the backend of the event you don't want to chop off any seismic waves. For a local event start to end of the event is about 1.5 min. Winquake default is to trap 3 min. Poor ratings: The ratings are based on the data at the sites used for analysis. Your data may also be poor or it could be good. It depends on your location in relation to the epicenter and the direction of the energy and the instruments orientation N/S -- E/W -- Z in relationship to the event. I live near the San Andreas fault zone and there are times when the data is poor for many local on smaller events. Many times the assessment rating is an arbitrary judgment scale based on the assessment of the seismologist that reviewed the event file. UPLOAD DATA: I took a look at the PSN event files for this event and I only see two event files from JP3 and HZ3 in Texas. Have you posted any data to the event files? Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:54 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Help me LEARN GPayton wrote: > After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know > very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often > embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve > my question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short. > > So! Question: > > 1) Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays > in WinQuake that both the *Pb* & *Sb* were seconds *_BEFORE_* the *P* > & *S* times. To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I > actually drop it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the > "tables" being off? Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect? > > 2) Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event > is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a > regional would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an > hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you > experienced people use? > > Thanks & Best regards, > Jerry According to the St. Louis network > _http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html_ , this quake was not a good one ... they rated it as poor. I have followed their analysis faithfully and such a rate makes for some poor readings of the incoming times of wave types. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Ahaaaa! I was not aware of that choice on the TABLE = tab. =20 That corrected my error!

I truly appreciate your individual help and any others that = may=20 respond. Unfortunately, people like myself without formal = background or=20 training have to scratch to find answers; the results of some of which = may be=20 correct. The usage of WinQuake and WinSDR are thus = difficult. The=20 HELP supplies some information, some dated, but the WHY is not always=20 answered. Perhaps I expect too much. I just want to learn = and know=20 as much as I can absorb. Unfortunately, at my age I don't retain = as much=20 as years ago! (smile)

Regards,

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Stephen=20 Hammond

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 = 11:48=20 AM

Subject: RE: Help me = LEARN

Hi Jerry, There is no such thing as a dumb question and = it is=20 OK to make
mistakes. This list has always supported learning and = that was=20 one of the
main purposes we developed the original BBS and Larry = creating=20 the first
Website.

I have a question. It may sound basic but = it's=20 just a thought. You don't
record many local events I take it. Which = table=20 are you using to calc the
P&S waves in Winquake? Open Winquake = click on=20 table and select the radial
button "regional" in the lower right of = the=20 popup. As for the amount of data
to cut. Check the PSN Redwood City = website=20 (Larry's) and look at the event
files. Locate 100223.200336.ate = That should=20 give you an idea of the amount
of data to save for a local event. = The rule=20 of thumb is you want to provide
enough data so the background noise = level=20 can be established before the
event occurred. On the backend of the = event=20 you don't want to chop off any
seismic waves. For a local event = start to=20 end of the event is about 1.5 min.
Winquake default is to trap 3 = min. Poor=20 ratings: The ratings are based on
the data at the sites used for = analysis.=20 Your data may also be poor or it
could be good. It depends on your = location=20 in relation to the epicenter and
the direction of the energy and = the=20 instruments orientation N/S -- E/W -- Z
in relationship to the = event. I=20 live near the San Andreas fault zone and
there are times when the = data is=20 poor for many local on smaller events. Many
times the assessment = rating is=20 an arbitrary judgment scale based on the
assessment of the = seismologist=20 that reviewed the event file. UPLOAD DATA: I
took a look at the PSN = event=20 files for this event and I only see two event
files from JP3 and = HZ3 in=20 Texas. Have you posted any data to the event
files? =

Regards, Steve=20 Hammond
PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA

-----Original = Message-----
From: psn-l-request@............... =20 [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On
Behalf Of Thomas = Dick
Sent:=20 Friday, February 26, 2010 7:54 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject:= Re:=20 Help me LEARN

GPayton wrote:
> After reading many posts = on the=20 PSN Net, it is obvious that I know
> very little as compared to = MANY of=20 you out there.   I am often
> embarrassed to ask a = question=20 and turn to the books to try to resolve
> my question(s). = Even at=20 that, many time I fall short.
>
> So! =20 Question:
>
>     = 1)   =20 Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays
> in = WinQuake=20 that both the *Pb* & *Sb* were seconds *_BEFORE_* the *P*
> = &=20 *S* times. To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I =
> actually drop it! What did I do wrong? Is this a = matter=20 of the
> "tables" being off? Or, am I wrong in assuming = it is=20 incorrect?
>
>     = 2)   =20 Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event
> = is HOW=20 LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a =
>=20 regional would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an =
>=20 hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time = that you=20
> experienced people use?
>
> Thanks & = Best=20 regards,
> Jerry
According to the St. Louis network
>=20 _http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html_
, = this=20 quake was not a good one ... they rated it as poor. I have =
followed their=20 analysis faithfully and such a rate makes for some poor
readings = of the=20 incoming times of wave=20 = types.
__________________________________________________________
<= BR>Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more=20 = information.

_____________________________________________________= _____

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Help me LEARN From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:22:59 -0600 Thanks Jon, those numbers seem reasonable and I would also assume each event might require adjustments. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: J�n Fr�mann To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 12:11 PM Subject: Re: Help me LEARN Hi Jerry, I am used to record local events. I usally record 5 min worth of data for events up to 600 km away. For 601 to 2000 km I usally record around worth of 10 min data. Anything of more distance I use 40 min. But I usually estimate the data needed pr.earthquake. Regards, J�n Fr�mann. On f�s, 2010-02-26 at 09:04 -0600, GPayton wrote: > After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know > very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often > embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve > my question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short. > > So! Question: > > 1) Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays > in WinQuake that both the Pb & Sb were seconds BEFORE the P & S times. > To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I actually drop > it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the "tables" being off? > Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect? > > 2) Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event > is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a > regional would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an > hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you > experienced people use? > > Thanks & Best regards, > Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Thanks Jon, those numbers seem reasonable and I would also assume = each=20 event might require adjustments.

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 J=F3n = Fr=EDmann

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 = 12:11=20 PM

Subject: Re: Help me = LEARN

Hi Jerry,

I am used to record local events. I = usally=20 record 5 min worth of data
for events up to 600 km away. For 601 to = 2000 km=20 I usally record around
worth of 10 min data. Anything of more = distance I=20 use 40 min. But I
usually estimate the data needed=20 pr.earthquake.

Regards,
J=F3n Fr=EDmann.

On f=F6s, = 2010-02-26 at=20 09:04 -0600, GPayton wrote:
> After reading many posts on the = PSN Net,=20 it is obvious that I know
> very little as compared to MANY of = you out=20 there.   I am often
> embarrassed to ask a question = and turn=20 to the books to try to resolve
> my question(s). Even at = that,=20 many time I fall short.
>
> So! =20 Question:
>
>     = 1)   =20 Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays
> in = WinQuake=20 that both the Pb & Sb were seconds BEFORE the P & S = times.
> To=20 me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I actually = drop
>=20 it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the "tables" = being=20 off?
> Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect?
> =
>     2)    Another "pause" = that I=20 have when using WinQuake of any event
> is HOW LONG to plot = it. =20 Obviously, a local event would be short, a
> regional would be a = little=20 longer and a teleseismic may be over an
> hour. But, I was = wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you
> = experienced=20 people use?
>
> Thanks & Best regards,
>=20 = Jerry

__________________________________________________________
Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Help me LEARN From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:28:24 -0700 Hi Jerry, I can tell you what I do for Q.2 1 I note the event time and use it as the beginning time, or there = about, As opposed to looking at the trace and blotting a bit to the = left. The reason I use this for the beginning, is because sometime if = I don't I will unknowing cut off the p and s. You may look at a trace = and think you have it all copied, but you may only be seeing the longer = frequencies, and miss the P . 2 Another rule I use is if I wish to compare my trace with someone = else's. For that I try to copy the same beginning and end that they = used. If they started at 10:05 and ended at 11:05 I use the same. 3 If neither of these things are factors, I try simple to center the = trace, leaving 10 or 15 mins, if front of and behind trace. Not very = scientific, but I like to see the signature more or less centered. Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GPayton=20 To: PSN Network List=20 Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 8:04 AM Subject: Help me LEARN After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know = very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often = embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve my = question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short. So! Question: 1) Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays in = WinQuake that both the Pb & Sb were seconds BEFORE the P & S times. To = me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I actually drop it! = What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the "tables" being off? Or, = am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect? 2) Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event = is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a = regional would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an hour. = But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you = experienced people use? Thanks & Best regards, Jerry

Hi Jerry, I can tell you what I = do for=20 Q.2

1 I note the event time and use = it as the=20 beginning time, or there about, As opposed to looking at the trace and = blotting=20 a bit to the left. The reason I use this for the beginning, = is=20 because sometime if I don't I will unknowing cut off the p and=20 s. You may look at a trace and think you have it = all=20 copied, but you may only be seeing the longer frequencies, and miss the = P=20 ..

2 Another rule I use is if I wish to = compare my=20 trace with someone else's. For that I try to copy the same = beginning=20 and end that they used. If they started at 10:05 and ended = at 11:05=20 I use the same.

3 If neither of these things are = factors, I try=20 simple to center the trace, leaving 10 or 15 mins, if front of and = behind=20 trace. Not very scientific, but I like to see the=20 signature more or less centered.

Ted

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 GPayton=20

To: PSN Network List

Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 = 8:04=20 AM

Subject: Help me LEARN

After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious = that I=20 know very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I = am often=20 embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve = my=20 question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short.

So! Question:

1) Today's trace of the = 3.1=20 event in Oklahoma displays in WinQuake that both = the=20 Pb & Sb were seconds=20 BEFORE the P & = S=20 times. To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I = actually=20 drop it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the = "tables"=20 being off? Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect?

2) Another "pause" that I = have when=20 using WinQuake of any event is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a = local=20 event would be short, a regional would be a little longer and a = teleseismic=20 may be over an hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a = rule-of-thumb=20 time that you experienced people use?

Thanks & Best regards,

Jerry

Subject: Re: Help me LEARN From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:06:24 -0600 Thanks Ted, I have a similar approach, in that I may add one minute ahead of the event - except local or regional as they come faster. And, unless I am wrong, the first part of the trace "tells" the most information and data than the tail end does. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Ted Channel To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Help me LEARN Hi Jerry, I can tell you what I do for Q.2 1 I note the event time and use it as the beginning time, or there about, As opposed to looking at the trace and blotting a bit to the left. The reason I use this for the beginning, is because sometime if I don't I will unknowing cut off the p and s. You may look at a trace and think you have it all copied, but you may only be seeing the longer frequencies, and miss the P . 2 Another rule I use is if I wish to compare my trace with someone else's. For that I try to copy the same beginning and end that they used. If they started at 10:05 and ended at 11:05 I use the same. 3 If neither of these things are factors, I try simple to center the trace, leaving 10 or 15 mins, if front of and behind trace. Not very scientific, but I like to see the signature more or less centered. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: GPayton To: PSN Network List Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 8:04 AM Subject: Help me LEARN After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve my question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short. So! Question: 1) Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays in WinQuake that both the Pb & Sb were seconds BEFORE the P & S times. To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I actually drop it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the "tables" being off? Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect? 2) Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a regional would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you experienced people use? Thanks & Best regards, Jerry

Thanks Ted,

I have a similar approach, in that I may add one minute ahead of = the event=20 - except local or regional as they come faster. And, unless I am = wrong,=20 the first part of the trace "tells" the most information and data than = the tail=20 end does.

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Ted=20 Channel

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 = 12:28=20 PM

Subject: Re: Help me = LEARN

Hi Jerry, I can tell you what I = do for=20 Q.2

1 I note the event time and use = it as the=20 beginning time, or there about, As opposed to looking at the trace and = blotting a bit to the left. The reason I use this for the=20 beginning, is because sometime if I don't I will unknowing cut off the = p and=20 s. You may look at a trace and think you have = it all=20 copied, but you may only be seeing the longer frequencies, and miss = the P=20 .

2 Another rule I use is if I wish to = compare my=20 trace with someone else's. For that I try to copy the same = beginning and end that they used. If they started at 10:05 = and=20 ended at 11:05 I use the same.

Ted

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 GPayton

To: PSN Network List

Sent: Friday, February 26, = 2010 8:04=20 AM

Subject: Help me LEARN

After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is = obvious that I=20 know very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I = am=20 often embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to = resolve=20 my question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short.

So! Question:

1) Today's trace of = the 3.1=20 event in Oklahoma displays in WinQuake that = both the=20 Pb & Sb were seconds=20 BEFORE the P &=20 S times. To me, that seems like I get a = bouncing ball=20 BEFORE I actually drop it! What did I do wrong? Is this = a matter=20 of the "tables" being off? Or, am I wrong in assuming it is=20 incorrect?

2) Another "pause" that I = have=20 when using WinQuake of any event is HOW LONG to plot it. = Obviously, a=20 local event would be short, a regional would be a little longer and = a=20 teleseismic may be over an hour. But, I was wondering IF there = was a=20 rule-of-thumb time that you experienced people use?

Thanks & Best regards,

Jerry

Subject: Chile earthquake From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:54:55 +0000 Hi all, USGS just upgraded the size of this earthquake up to Mw8.8. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Help me LEARN From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 05:45:48 -0700 It is not unusual to get signals several seconds in difference to the models. Your tables should be designed for your exact geographic location. The models used by Winquake are most likely a general type table. The thing I like are those theoretical tables built by the USGS as they relate to your position and the earthquake in question. Sometimes but not always. I get results almost exactly the same as those theoretical computations. I compare my signals with Phoenix initially. Most always I get results consistent with my location relative to Phoenix and the Earthquake. I missed this last 8.8 EQ because if my times has not been calibrated within the last 24 hours I simply turn off the program collecting the info till I can get the clock set to WWV. I use a free running modulo counter to calibrate my times due to the fact my WWV radio signal is horrible and I can not afford the opportunity costs to have a GPS calibration and I will not run a time sharing program to collect information like Windows. I consider my times very good when the clock is properly set. Very good to me is like +/- 0.1 second. But to the USGS its probably more like +/- 0.000000001 second. Light travels in a vacuum (Deep Space) maybe 11.8 inches in this time. If your times are a bit off after calibrating and coordinating your time do not worry about a few seconds of difference. After all, we are Armatures and not serious scientists. Gut Luk Comrade, :-) geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: "PSN Network List" Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 8:04 AM Subject: Help me LEARN > After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know very > little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often embarrassed to ask > a question and turn to the books to try to resolve my question(s). Even at > that, many time I fall short. > > So! Question: > > 1) Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays in WinQuake > that both the Pb & Sb were seconds BEFORE the P & S times. To me, that > seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I actually drop it! What did I do > wrong? Is this a matter of the "tables" being off? Or, am I wrong in > assuming it is incorrect? > > 2) Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event is > HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a regional > would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an hour. But, I was > wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you experienced people use? > > Thanks & Best regards, > Jerry > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: What Would It take ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:01:39 -0700 Hello Psn, What would it take to get the USGS to build a STANDARD SYSTEM kit for the armature for under $500.00 after taxes ??? When I say system I mean the entire system from beginning to end ? Time Calibration, Sensors, Data logger, Standard interfaces for data transfer. It could be a set of simple 2 second sensors extended to 20 seconds electronically. A standard takes the questions away from your results. ( I was born in Hawaii while it was still a territory, not a State ) I wonder if Tripler Army Hospital will still be there after the Tsunami hits Hawaii ?? I certainly will not miss it. Military medicine leaves a lot to be desired. Hotel Street was full of nasty gangs. Like, waiting for the bus at 2am your very life was in jeopardy. Last time I was in Hawaii (1970s) it seems the Army Military Police were still in charge. :-) regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Help me LEARN From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:02:39 +0000 Hi Geoffrey, Using radio signal for time in earthquake mesurement is quite inaccurate. You should get a GPS clock, as you just have to buy it once and set it up once. It is not that expensive in the long run. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2010-02-27 at 05:45 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > It is not unusual to get signals several seconds > in difference to the models. >=20 > Your tables should be designed > for your exact geographic location. >=20 > The models used by Winquake are most likely > a general type table. >=20 > The thing I like are those theoretical tables > built by the USGS as they relate to your position and > the earthquake in question. >=20 > Sometimes but not always. I get results almost exactly > the same as those theoretical computations. >=20 > I compare my signals with Phoenix initially. > Most always I get results consistent with > my location relative to Phoenix and > the Earthquake. >=20 > I missed this last 8.8 EQ because if my > times has not been calibrated within the last 24 hours > I simply turn off the program collecting the info > till I can get the clock set to WWV. > I use a free running modulo counter to > calibrate my times due to the fact > my WWV radio signal is horrible and I can > not afford the opportunity costs to have > a GPS calibration and I will not run > a time sharing program to collect information > like Windows. > I consider my times very good > when the clock is properly set. >=20 > Very good to me is like +/- 0.1 second. >=20 > But to the USGS its probably more like +/- 0.000000001 second. > Light travels in a vacuum (Deep Space) maybe 11.8 inches in this time. >=20 > If your times are a bit off after calibrating > and coordinating your time do not worry > about a few seconds of difference. > After all, we are Armatures and not serious scientists. >=20 > Gut Luk Comrade, :-) > geoff >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "GPayton" > To: "PSN Network List" > Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 8:04 AM > Subject: Help me LEARN >=20 >=20 > > After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know very= =20 > > little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often embarrassed t= o ask=20 > > a question and turn to the books to try to resolve my question(s). Eve= n at=20 > > that, many time I fall short. > >=20 > > So! Question: > >=20 > > 1) Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays in WinQua= ke=20 > > that both the Pb & Sb were seconds BEFORE the P & S times. To me, that= =20 > > seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I actually drop it! What did I= do=20 > > wrong? Is this a matter of the "tables" being off? Or, am I wrong in=20 > > assuming it is incorrect? > >=20 > > 2) Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event i= s=20 > > HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a region= al=20 > > would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an hour. But, I= was=20 > > wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you experienced people= use? > >=20 > > Thanks & Best regards, > > Jerry=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Chile earthquake From: Steinar Midtskogen steinar@............. Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:06:26 +0100 J�n Fr�mann writes: > Hi all, > > USGS just upgraded the size of this earthquake up to Mw8.8. Surely an enormous quake with catastrophic consequences. My SEP seismometer 13,000 km away went off scale for an hour. -- Steinar Midtskogen http://voksenlia.net/met/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Help me LEARN From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:23:31 -0700 Thanks for the Tip Mr. Fr�mann, Last time I checked it out it was much "MUCH" too expensive for something already paid for with tax dollars (GPS). We should by rights already have miniature atomic clocks in every home for maybe $100.00 America will not standardize hardware and that's why this specialty stuff is so expensive. The variety here is ridiculous. There is needless duplication and lesser versions of everything unimportant. TVs radios whatever.. Try to get quality stuff cheaply here sometime. Almost nothing is built in the USA anymore. Someone in Government has sold our country abroad. Most all That which is important and complete is extremely expensive. Also I need to calibrate only once per minute the way I do things. There are only milliseconds of difference between WWV and my location due to Ionispheric bounces. If I were actually a scientist and made my living at this Id worry more about precision and accuracy. There is no reason at this time for me to do this. Even though Id like to. I think possibly we are returning to an Agricultural Society instead of an Industrial one. Reactionary in politics. Not my kind of world. Cheers, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "J�n Fr�mann" To: Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:02 AM Subject: Re: Help me LEARN Hi Geoffrey, Using radio signal for time in earthquake mesurement is quite inaccurate. You should get a GPS clock, as you just have to buy it once and set it up once. It is not that expensive in the long run. Regards, J�n Fr�mann. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Chile earthquake From: ian ian@........... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:31:52 +0000 Mines was pretty active here in Scotland too. See http://www.iasmith.com/ Cheers Ian Steinar Midtskogen wrote: > J�n Fr�mann writes: > > >> Hi all, >> >> USGS just upgraded the size of this earthquake up to Mw8.8. >> > > Surely an enormous quake with catastrophic consequences. My SEP > seismometer 13,000 km away went off scale for an hour. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: 8.8 From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:58:32 -0700 Im just watching a CNN broadcast about this EQ and Im wondering if scientist could measure the angles and dangles at a sunbduction fault they may be able to determine the degree of stress and the possiblity of a incipant EQ. Thus eq prediction ?? Regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Hello Chris From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:01:56 -0700 Hello Chris, two hours to Hawaii tsunami time (HTT). I have Always Heard that semiconductors are current devices where vacuum tubes are voltage devices. If this is true wouldn't one large conductor like a bar of copper be better in a magnetic field creating a flow of current than many turns of small high resistance wires ? I have seen an aluminum bar stopped dead in its tracks from a fall of maybe two feet by a very strong magnetic field. There must have been many amps of current induced in the rod to stop that momentum. Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 6:18 AM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input - Wire > > In a message dated 22/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: > > Would it be possible to use a > single massive (ideal) wire like 1/4 inch > in diameter with a magnet then > increase the voltage to be sensed > simply narrow the wire gradually > to like 30 AWG wire in a current loop > to act as a concentrator to boost the voltage ? > Sort of like water through a pipe > which narrows suddenly ? > Is this silly ? > > > > Hi Geoff, > > Sorry, but this won't work. The analogy is not correct. You need a lot > of turns N to generate a larger voltage = N x the flux change. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > ****************************************************************************************************************** Mail Returned: ???? Return-Path: Received: from blu0-omc1-s22.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc1-s22.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.116.33]) by mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7F7A3380000A8 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:55:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from BLU0-SMTP74 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s22.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 05:55:09 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [173.16.82.25] X-Originating-Email: [gmvoeth@............ Message-ID: Received: from USA ([173.16.82.25]) by BLU0-SMTP74.blu0.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 05:55:08 -0800 Reply-To: "Geoffrey" From: "Geoffrey" To: References: <34b2.1a3a416f.38b3de36@.......> In-Reply-To: <34b2.1a3a416f.38b3de36@.......> Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input - Wire Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:54:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2010 13:55:08.0946 (UTC) FILETIME=[793C1F20:01CAB7B4] x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:463578400:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400a4b89243d18fa X-AOL-IP: 65.55.116.33 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Help me LEARN From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:11:21 +0000 Hi Geoffrey, Larry has good GPS clock for sale. If you have hardware from him it should not be a problem for you to get one GPS clock and start using that with it. That is what I do. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2010-02-27 at 06:23 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > Thanks for the Tip Mr. Fr=EDmann, >=20 > Last time I checked it out it was > much "MUCH" too expensive > for something already paid for with tax dollars (GPS). > We should by rights already have miniature > atomic clocks in every home for > maybe $100.00 >=20 > America will not standardize hardware > and that's why this specialty stuff is so expensive. >=20 > The variety here is ridiculous. >=20 > There is needless duplication and lesser versions of everything > unimportant. TVs radios whatever.. > Try to get quality stuff cheaply here sometime. > Almost nothing is built in the USA anymore. > Someone in Government has sold our country abroad. >=20 > Most all That which is important and complete is extremely expensive. >=20 > Also I need to calibrate only once per minute > the way I do things. >=20 > There are only milliseconds of difference > between WWV and my location due to > Ionispheric bounces. >=20 > If I were actually a scientist and made my living > at this Id worry more about precision and accuracy. >=20 > There is no reason at this time > for me to do this. > Even though Id like to. >=20 > I think possibly we are returning > to an Agricultural Society instead > of an Industrial one. Reactionary > in politics. > Not my kind of world. >=20 >=20 > Cheers, > geoff >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "J=F3n Fr=EDmann" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:02 AM > Subject: Re: Help me LEARN >=20 >=20 > Hi Geoffrey, >=20 > Using radio signal for time in earthquake mesurement is quite > inaccurate. You should get a GPS clock, as you just have to buy it once > and set it up once. It is not that expensive in the long run. >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: 8.8 From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:41:09 -0700 Hi Geoff - This information is published in the focal mechanism for the event. = When you go to the UsGS recent Earthquake page and click on the event, = you will see a tab for Scientific and Technical. Click on that tab, and = then look at the various moment tensor solutions. Bob Hancock On Feb 27, 2010, at 6:58 AM, Geoffrey wrote: > Im just watching a CNN broadcast > about this EQ and Im wondering if > scientist could measure the angles and > dangles at a sunbduction fault > they may be able to determine the degree > of stress and the possiblity of a > incipant EQ. >=20 > Thus eq prediction ?? >=20 > Regards, > geoff >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of = the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Chile earthquake From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:26:39 +0000 Hi all, I did see the reflection of the wave when it arrived here in Iceland, as I am ~12000km away from the epicenter of the earthquake. I am waiting for more and stronger aftershocks in this area. Given the experience of Sumatra earthquake in 2004, we can expect mag 7.0> aftershock in next few hours or days. I am also expecting more gobal activity following this earthquake. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2010-02-27 at 13:31 +0000, ian wrote: > Mines was pretty active here in Scotland too. See http://www.iasmith.com= / >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Ian >=20 > Steinar Midtskogen wrote: > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann writes: > > > > =20 > >> Hi all, > >> > >> USGS just upgraded the size of this earthquake up to Mw8.8. > >> =20 > > > > Surely an enormous quake with catastrophic consequences. My SEP > > seismometer 13,000 km away went off scale for an hour. > > > > =20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Earthquake in Argentina From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:06:02 +0000 Hi all, EMSC is reporting earthquake near or below Salta, Argentina. The size of the earthquake has early reports of Mb6.2 Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: What Would It take ? From: "Jim Santee" jsantee@............ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:33:21 -0800 "I wonder if Tripler Army Hospital will still be there after the Tsunami hits Hawaii ??" Tripler is well above the "high water mark" It is the greater downtown Honolulu area that needs to be worried. The highways are easily clogged even under non-peak hours. I was driving from Kaneohe to work on Sand Island (Honolulu) one morning and my car broke down in the Likelike tunnel during rush hour - I had traffic backed up for nearly ten miles with those who made it through were giving me the "Hawaiian good luck gesture". Even under the best of conditions getting to high ground in heavily populated Honolulu would be very difficult. "Military medicine leaves a lot to be desired" Really pretty good. Better than most civilian clinics I have been to. "Hotel Street was full of nasty gangs.Like, waiting for the bus at 2am your very life was in jeopardy." Pretty much closed down. It is some of the local neighborhoods that you need to watch yourself. "Last time I was in Hawaii (1970s) it seems the Army Military Police were still in charge" By the mid 1980's HASP was gone. The horror stories of HASP were well known. I live in Clatsop County on the northern Oregon coast. A lot building and development has taken place on sand fill from dredging the Columbia River - the land would turn into quick sand. At the same time there is also a lot of very expensive real estate with prime ocean front views - you can guess what happens here. There is not a lot of options if an evacuation was needed as most escape routes will be easily clogged. If a major quake were to hit our area directly it could be weeks before the highways were passable. I am lucky my home is fifteen miles east of the Pacific. My wife is an RN, the hospital she works at is built on fill on what was once the shore line of a small bay on the Columbia River. Jim Santee __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Chilean earthquakes From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:35:12 -0600 Has anyone else noticed that the mag 6 plus quakes after the original 8.8 don't seem to be coming through as distinctly as I would expect? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Chilean earthquakes From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:50:26 -0800 (PST) Thomas I was wondering the same thing. I would think the 6.9 event ~1.5 hrs later would have showed up. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Thomas Dick wrote: From: Thomas Dick Subject: Chilean earthquakes To: "psn-l@.............." Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:35 AM Has anyone else noticed that the mag 6 plus quakes after the original 8.8 don't seem to be coming through as distinctly as I would expect? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

Thomas
I was wondering the same thing. I would think the 6.9 event ~1.5 hrs later would have showed up.

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

--- On Sat, 2/27/10, Thomas Dick <dickthomas01@.............> wrote:

From: Thomas Dick <dickthomas01@.............>
Subject: Chilean earthquakes
To: "psn-l@.............." <psn-l@..............>
Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:35 AM

Has anyone else noticed that the mag 6 plus quakes after the original 8.8 don't seem to be coming through as distinctly as I would expect?
__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEISMICNET.COM with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Subject: Re: Chilean earthquakes From: THOMAS DICK dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:19:40 -0600 I still see it on the recent 19:00 UST Valparasio quake...it may be due to oscillation of crust...this territory is new to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Lotz Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:50 Subject: Re: Chilean earthquakes To: psn-l@.............. > Thomas > I was wondering the same thing. I would think the 6.9 event ~1.5 > hrs later would have showed up. > > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com > > --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Thomas Dick > wrote: > From: Thomas Dick > Subject: Chilean earthquakes > To: "psn-l@.............." > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:35 AM > > Has anyone else noticed that the mag 6 plus quakes after the > original 8.8 don't seem to be coming through as distinctly as I > would expect? > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the > body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > I still see it on the recent 19=3A00 UST Valparasio quake=2E=2E=2Eit may= be due to oscillation of crust=2E=2E=2Ethis territory is new to me=2E=3C= br=3E=3Cbr=3E----- Original Message -----=3Cbr=3EFrom=3A Barry Lotz =26l= t=3Bbarry=5Flotz=40sbcglobal=2Enet=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3EDate=3A Saturday=2C Fe= bruary 27=2C 2010 12=3A50=3Cbr=3ESubject=3A Re=3A Chilean earthquakes=3C= br=3ETo=3A psn-l=40webtronics=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Thomas=3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B I was wondering the same thing=2E I would think the 6=2E9 event= =7E1=2E5 =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B hrs later would have showed up=2E=3Cbr=3E=26g= t=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Regards=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Barry=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B http= =3A//www=2Eseismicvault=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B --- On Sa= t=2C 2/27/10=2C Thomas Dick =26lt=3Bdickthomas01=40insightbb=2Ecom=26gt=3B= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B wrote=3A=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B From=3A Thomas Dick =26lt=3Bd= ickthomas01=40insightbb=2Ecom=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Subject=3A Chilean= earthquakes=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B To=3A =22psn-l=40webtronics=2Ecom=22 =26lt=3B= psn-l=40webtronics=2Ecom=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Date=3A Saturday=2C Feb= ruary 27=2C 2010=2C 8=3A35 AM=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Has anyon= e else noticed that the mag 6 plus quakes after the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B ori= ginal 8=2E8 don=27t seem to be coming through as distinctly as I =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B would expect=3F=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=3C= br=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-= L)=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUE= ST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM with the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B body of the message (fir= st line only)=3A unsubscribe=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B See http=3A//www=2Eseismicn= et=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more information=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Subject: RE: Chilean earthquakes From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:45:55 -0800 As I drove from Half Moon Bay to Santa Cruz this afternoon all the Beaches along the way were closed and there were some electronic signs saying Beaches closed due to tsunami. Regards, Steve Hammond From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of THOMAS DICK Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:20 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Chilean earthquakes I still see it on the recent 19:00 UST Valparasio quake...it may be due to oscillation of crust...this territory is new to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Lotz Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:50 Subject: Re: Chilean earthquakes To: psn-l@.............. > Thomas > I was wondering the same thing. I would think the 6.9 event ~1.5 > hrs later would have showed up. > > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com > > --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Thomas Dick > wrote: > From: Thomas Dick > Subject: Chilean earthquakes > To: "psn-l@.............." > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:35 AM > > Has anyone else noticed that the mag 6 plus quakes after the > original 8.8 don't seem to be coming through as distinctly as I > would expect? > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the > body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >

As I drove from Half Moon Bay to Santa Cruz this = afternoon all the Beaches along the way were closed and there were some electronic = signs saying Beaches closed due to tsunami.

Regards, Steve Hammond

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of THOMAS = DICK
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:20 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: Chilean earthquakes

I still see it on the recent 19:00 UST Valparasio = quake...it may be due to oscillation of crust...this territory is new to me.

----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Lotz <barry_lotz@.............>
Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:50
Subject: Re: Chilean earthquakes
To: psn-l@..............

> Thomas
> I was wondering the same thing. I would think the 6.9 event ~1.5 =
> hrs later would have showed up.
>
> Regards
> Barry
> http://www.seismicvault.com
>
> --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Thomas Dick <dickthomas01@.............> =
> wrote:
> From: Thomas Dick <dickthomas01@.............>
> Subject: Chilean earthquakes
> To: "psn-l@.............." = <psn-l@..............>
> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:35 AM
>
> Has anyone else noticed that the mag 6 plus quakes after the
> original 8.8 don't seem to be coming through as distinctly as I =
> would expect?
> __________________________________________________________
>
> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
>
> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the
> body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more = information.
>

Subject: RE: Chile earthquake From: Ali Oncel oncel@........... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:09:25 -0800 Hi All=2C I have just compiled the information of the Chile EQ from the SSA site that= can be read through the site. =20 Cheers=2C =20 Ali =20 > Subject: Re: Chile earthquake > From: jonfr@......... > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Sat=2C 27 Feb 2010 15:26:39 +0000 >=20 > Hi all=2C >=20 > I did see the reflection of the wave when it arrived here in Iceland=2C a= s > I am ~12000km away from the epicenter of the earthquake. >=20 > I am waiting for more and stronger aftershocks in this area. Given the > experience of Sumatra earthquake in 2004=2C we can expect mag 7.0> > aftershock in next few hours or days. >=20 > I am also expecting more gobal activity following this earthquake. >=20 > Regards=2C > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On lau=2C 2010-02-27 at 13:31 +0000=2C ian wrote: > > Mines was pretty active here in Scotland too. See http://www.iasmith.co= m/ > >=20 > > Cheers > >=20 > > Ian > >=20 > > Steinar Midtskogen wrote: > > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann writes: > > > > > >=20 > > >> Hi all=2C > > >> > > >> USGS just upgraded the size of this earthquake up to Mw8.8. > > >>=20 > > > > > > Surely an enormous quake with catastrophic consequences. My SEP > > > seismometer 13=2C000 km away went off scale for an hour. > > > > > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Introducing Windows=AE phone. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D9708122=

Hi All=2C
I have just compiled the information of th= e Chile EQ from the SSA site that can be read through the site.
=3B
Che= ers=2C
=3B
Ali=

= =3B
>=3B Subject: Re: Chile earthquake
>=3B From: jonfr@jonf= r.com
>=3B To: psn-l@..............
>=3B Date: Sat=2C 27 Feb 2010= 15:26:39 +0000
>=3B
>=3B Hi all=2C
>=3B
>=3B I did s= ee the reflection of the wave when it arrived here in Iceland=2C as
>= =3B I am ~12000km away from the epicenter of the earthquake.
>=3B
= >=3B I am waiting for more and stronger aftershocks in this area. Given t= he
>=3B experience of Sumatra earthquake in 2004=2C we can expect mag = 7.0>=3B
>=3B aftershock in next few hours or days.
>=3B
>= =3B I am also expecting more gobal activity following this earthquake.
&= gt=3B
>=3B Regards=2C
>=3B J=F3n Fr=EDmann.
>=3B
>=3B= On lau=2C 2010-02-27 at 13:31 +0000=2C ian wrote:
>=3B >=3B Mines w= as pretty active here in Scotland too. See http://www.iasmith.com/
>= =3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Cheers
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Ian<= BR>>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Steinar Midtskogen wrote:
>=3B >= =3B >=3B J=F3n Fr=EDmann <=3Bjonfr@.........>=3B writes:
>=3B &g= t=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B >=3B>=3B Hi all= =2C
>=3B >=3B >=3B>=3B
>=3B >=3B >=3B>=3B USGS just u= pgraded the size of this earthquake up to Mw8.8.
>=3B >=3B >=3B>= =3B
>=3B >=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B >=3B Surely an enormous qua= ke with catastrophic consequences. My SEP
>=3B >=3B >=3B seismomet= er 13=2C000 km away went off scale for an hour.
>=3B >=3B >=3B
= >=3B >=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B ____________________________________= ______________________
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Public Seismic Ne= twork Mailing List (PSN-L)
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B To leave this= list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
>=3B >=3B the body of= the message (first line only): unsubscribe
>=3B >=3B See http://www= ..seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
>=3B
>=3B __= ________________________________________________________
>=3B
>= =3B Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
>=3B
>=3B To lea= ve this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
>=3B the body of= the message (first line only): unsubscribe
>=3B See http://www.seismi= cnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

All= your Hotmail contacts on your phone. Try it now. = Subject: Chile long period waves From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:05:26 -0800 (PST) All I noticed from a station near me (CMB) monitoring with a STS-1 vertical sensor a lot of energy in the 0.002 hz - 0.004 hz range 8 hrs after the main event. It will be curious to see how long it persists Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com

All
I noticed from a station near me (CMB) monitoring with a STS-1 vertical sensor a lot of energy in the 0.002 hz - 0.004 hz range 8 hrs after the main event. It will be curious to see how long it persists

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

Subject: Re: Chile long period waves From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:37:54 +0000 Hi Barry, This is the effect of the earthquake. It is going to last some time now. This can also be seen on USGS plots that are at 0.002Hz. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2010-02-27 at 22:05 -0800, Barry Lotz wrote: > All > I noticed from a station near me (CMB) monitoring with a STS-1 > vertical sensor a lot of energy in the 0.002 hz - 0.004 hz range 8 hrs > after the main event. It will be curious to see how long it persists=20 >=20 > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Chile long period waves From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:00:57 EST Hi Barry, I have register an approximately 1480 second period wave on the mercury tilt meter. This is probably the 25.7 minute oS3 free oscillation mode of the earth. It needs a big to set that one ringing. Regards Martin

Hi Barry,

I have register an approximately 1480 second perio= d wave=20 on the mercury tilt meter.

This is probably the 25.7 minute oS3 free oscillation mode of= the=20 earth. It needs a big to set that one ringing.

Regards Martin

Subject: Re: Chile long period waves From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:45:33 -0800 (PST) Jon You can really see it at http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.shtml Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Sun, 2/28/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann Subject: Re: Chile long period waves To: psn-l@.............. Date: Sunday, February 28, 2010, 4:37 AM Hi Barry, This is the effect of the earthquake. It is going to last some time now. This can also be seen on USGS plots that are at 0.002Hz. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2010-02-27 at 22:05 -0800, Barry Lotz wrote: > All > I noticed from a station near me (CMB)=0A monitoring with a STS-1 > vertical sensor a lot of energy in the 0.002 hz - 0.004 hz range 8 hrs > after the main event. It will be curious to see how long it persists=20 >=20 > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

Jon
You can real= ly see it at http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.shtml

Regards
B= arry

From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........>
Subject: Re: Chile= long period waves
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Sunday, February 28= , 2010, 4:37 AM

Hi Barry,

This is th= e effect of the earthquake. It is going to last some time now.
This can = also be seen on USGS plots that are at 0.002Hz.

Regards,
J=F3n Fr= =EDmann.

On lau, 2010-02-27 at 22:05 -0800, Barry Lotz wrote:
> All
> I no= ticed from a station near me (CMB)=0A monitoring with a STS-1
> verti= cal sensor a lot of energy in the 0.002 hz - 0.004 hz range 8 hrs
> a= fter the main event. It will be curious to see how long it persists
>= ;
> Regards
> Barry
> http://www.seismicvault.com

__________________________________________________________

= Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email= PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of t= he message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.sei= smicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

<= /div>

Subject: Chilean quake From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:37:33 -0600 Referring to the 8.8 quake 2/27/10 and the 6.1 quake at 11:25:34 2/28/10....according to the "rules", "P" larger on broadside and "S" is larger on the end .....the quakes were at long. 72 and I am at 87 ..... "S" didn't seem to follow that rule ... or did I miss something? is this a depth issue?? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Chilean quake From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:35:52 -0700 They was only have one focal mechanism published at this time for the = 100228 M 6.1 event, while there are three focal mechanism solutions = published for the 100227 M 8.8 event. Each of these focal mechanisms = were determined by different algorithms, and while there similarities, = you cannot make a direct comparison between the two events at this time, = until you have two focal mechanism determined by the same algorithm. = The Global CMT (Centroid Moment Tensor) catalog is maintained by Harvard = University and while it has published the focal mechanism for the M 8.8 = event, it has not published the focal mechanism for the M 6.1 event. = This information should be available in a few days and that would allow = for a direct comparison at that time. However, that being said, all four focal mechanisms appear to be = similar. The maximum spread on strike was 21 degrees, The maximum = spread on dip was 14 degrees. The maximum spread on slip was 24 = degrees. Peak P and Rayleigh wave amplitudes are associated the middle of the = nodal planes, and peak S and Love Wave amplitudes are associated with = the nodal plane lines. Although the available data indicates that the strike, dip, and slip are = close, if your station location falls into different nodal planes from = the two events, you could see significantly different wave amplitudes = and direction of initial of wave movement. Another way is to download data from either the IU, US, or Transportable = Array along the closest ray path to your station and compare the = results. This may or may not be possible depending upon your station = location. Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:37 AM, Thomas Dick wrote: > Referring to the 8.8 quake 2/27/10 and the 6.1 quake at 11:25:34 = 2/28/10....according to the "rules", "P" larger on broadside and "S" is = larger on the end .....the quakes were at long. 72 and I am at 87 ..... = "S" didn't seem to follow that rule ... or did I miss something? is this = a depth issue?? > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of = the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Chilean quake From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:34:28 -0600 Thanks Bob for your comments. I looked at USIN about 20 miles from me and IU at Bloomignton, IN about 60 miles away for both events. Their data confused me even more! The E-W and N-S for the "S" wave amplitude is not appreciably different ... particularly if ScS, SP and SPP are ignored __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Solarstorms From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 17:11:08 +0000 Hi all, I know this is not your typical earthquake subject. But I wanted to point out this article about solar storms and the damage the create. This is important because a solar storm is going to knock out, or kill the GPS system. It is also going to create a lot of other damage. Here is the link http://www.solarstorms.org/SRefStorms.html What effect it might have on earthquakes I do not know. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: M 8.8 Chilie From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 12:43:53 -0700 Here are two links on the recent M 8.8 earthquake in Chile. http://www.geo.arizona.edu/gsat/Chile2010.htm http://www.iris.edu/hq/programs/education_and_outreach/moments I also have a copy of the paper written by Dr. Susan Beck University of = Arizona, titled "Source Characteristics of Historic Earthquakes Along = the Central Chile Subduction Zone". The paper was dated 1998. Dr Beck = has done a lot of her work in that area. =20 If anyone would like a copy of the paper (1.5 Mb), just drop me an email = at icarus@.......... and I will forward it to you. Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ= Here = are two links on the recent M 8.8 earthquake in = Chile.

http://www.geo.ariz= ona.edu/gsat/Chile2010.htm

ht= tp://www.iris.edu/hq/programs/education_and_outreach/moments

I also have a copy of the paper written by Dr. Susan = Beck University of Arizona, titled "Source Characteristics of Historic = Earthquakes Along the Central Chile Subduction Zone". The paper = was dated 1998. Dr Beck has done a lot of her work in that area. =

If anyone would like a copy of the paper = (1.5 Mb), just drop me an email at icarus@........., and I will = forward it to you.

Bob Hancock

Three = Points, AZ

= Subject: RE: Solarstorms From: "Dale Hardy" photon1@........... Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 13:48:54 +1100 Hi Jon, The Radio Jove project is also a good way to view solar storms live, = besides storms on Jupiter the solar ones are easily received with a simple radio setup, see http://radiojove.gsfc.nasa.gov/ regards Dale -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2010 4:11 AM To: PSN-Postlist Subject: Solarstorms Hi all, I know this is not your typical earthquake subject. But I wanted to point out this article about solar storms and the damage the create. This is important because a solar storm is going to knock out, or kill the GPS system. It is also going to create a lot of other damage. Here is the link http://www.solarstorms.org/SRefStorms.html What effect it might have on earthquakes I do not know. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2715 - Release Date: 03/01/10 06:34:00 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Volcano earthquakes From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:46:39 +0000 Hi all, I want to point you all out about earthquakes in a volcano in Iceland named Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. Last week there where recored 312 earthquakes in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull volcano. Those earthquakes are related to magma movment under the volcano. Many of those earthquakes can be seen on my Hekla station on the internet. The distance is about 40 km from my station there. Here is a chart made by the IMO in Iceland. http://hraun.vedur.is/ja/viku/2010/vika_08/eyjafjallajokull_15d.png Here is a automatic GPS plot that is run by IMO. http://hraun.vedur.is/ja/gps/predorb/theypred.html Here is information in English about this volcano. http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=3D1702-02=3D Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Earth axis change after Chile EQ From: photon1@........... Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 18:59:43 +1100 According to NASA the earths axis changed after the Chilean earthquake http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-071 Dale

According to NASA the earths axis changed after the Chilean = earthquake

http://= www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=3D2010-071

Dale

Subject: Volcano earthquakes From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 14:51:37 +0000 Hi all, My Hekla station shows a lot of activity at this moment. The reason is the Eyjafjallj=F6kull volcano, witch appears to be waking and might eruput with out much warning, if the earthquakes are any clue. Over the past 48 hours there have been 400+ earthquakes in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull and nearby area. The activity appears to be rather continus at this point in time. My earthquake plots can be seen here, http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/tremoren.htm Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Volcano earthquakes From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:50:30 -0600 J�n I looked at your site and I see what you are talking about. I don't think we can make too much of anything right now. With the big quake off Chile and the aftershocks and the other quakes around the globe since it is hard to tell ... and much harder to "forecast". I don't know about your equipment but these ocean storms have put mine in territory I haven't seen. Did you see where two ocean cruise liners in the Mediterrean had problems ... and surely you saw that stuff that happened in Spain. The earth is shaking from the inside and on the outside. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Subduction Zone Profiles From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 12:34:52 -0600 I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see what the actual profile view of the location of an event? I realize that such a profile is not universal or homogeneous. I may not be available because of the high possibility of variation along the interface. I can see where the plates meet each other and their approx. rate of interface, but not how the profile of that plate looks. The 8.8 Chilean event was shown eventually and was interesting to me in visualizing the occurrence.

I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to = see what=20 the actual profile view of the location of an event? I realize = that such a=20 profile is not universal or homogeneous. I may not be available = because of=20 the high possibility of variation along the interface.

I can see where the plates meet each other and their approx. rate = of=20 interface, but not how the profile of that plate looks.

The 8.8 Chilean event was shown eventually and was interesting to=20 me in visualizing the occurrence.

Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:53:14 -0800 Here are a few websites that might have what you are looking for.. The IRIS program has some great animations that explain much about = subduction zones http://www.iris.edu/hq/programs/education_and_outreach/animations In particular, here are a couple animations that show the elastic = rebound effect in a subduction zone. http://www.iris.edu/hq/programs/education_and_outreach/animations#B In addition, the IRIS website puts out some educational information for = significant earthquakes at http://www.iris.edu/hq/retm Hope these help. Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GPayton=20 To: PSN Network List=20 Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 10:34 AM Subject: Subduction Zone Profiles I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see = what the actual profile view of the location of an event? I realize = that such a profile is not universal or homogeneous. I may not be = available because of the high possibility of variation along the = interface. I can see where the plates meet each other and their approx. rate of = interface, but not how the profile of that plate looks. The 8.8 Chilean event was shown eventually and was interesting to me = in visualizing the occurrence.=20

Here are a few websites that might have what you = are=20 looking for..

The IRIS program has some great animations that = explain=20 much about subduction zones

http://www.iris.edu/hq/programs/education_and_outreach/animations

In particular, here are a couple animations that = show the=20 elastic rebound effect in a subduction zone.

http://www.iris.edu/hq/programs/education_and_outreach/animations#B

In addition, the IRIS website puts out some = educational=20 information for significant earthquakes at

http://www.iris.edu/hq/retm

Hope these help.

Kay Wyatt

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 GPayton=20

To: PSN Network List

Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 = 10:34=20 AM

Subject: Subduction Zone = Profiles

I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at = to see=20 what the actual profile view of the location of an event? I = realize that=20 such a profile is not universal or homogeneous. I may not be = available=20 because of the high possibility of variation along the = interface.

I can see where the plates meet each other and their approx. rate = of=20 interface, but not how the profile of that plate looks.

The 8.8 Chilean event was shown eventually and was interesting to = me in visualizing the occurrence.

Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:58:51 -0800 For specific earthquakes, the USGS has considerable information = regarding profile views. For example, the 8.8 Chile earthquake at http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2010tfan.php#= scitech Look at the seismicity cross section and the subduction zone geometry = analysis. The finite fault model is interesting too. Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GPayton=20 To: PSN Network List=20 Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 10:34 AM Subject: Subduction Zone Profiles I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see = what the actual profile view of the location of an event? I realize = that such a profile is not universal or homogeneous. I may not be = available because of the high possibility of variation along the = interface. I can see where the plates meet each other and their approx. rate of = interface, but not how the profile of that plate looks. The 8.8 Chilean event was shown eventually and was interesting to me = in visualizing the occurrence.=20

For specific earthquakes, the USGS has = considerable=20 information regarding profile views. For example, the 8.8 Chile = earthquake=20 at

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quake= s/us2010tfan.php#scitech

Look at the seismicity cross section and the = subduction=20 zone geometry analysis. The finite fault model is interesting=20 too.

Kay Wyatt

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 GPayton=20

To: PSN Network List

Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 = 10:34=20 AM

Subject: Subduction Zone = Profiles

I can see where the plates meet each other and their approx. rate = of=20 interface, but not how the profile of that plate looks.

The 8.8 Chilean event was shown eventually and was interesting to = me in visualizing the occurrence.

Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:00:42 -0600 Thanks Kay, but I meant "actual" profiles not animations of HOW they work. BUT, it will be good to see again. Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wyatt To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 12:53 PM Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles Here are a few websites that might have what you are looking for.. The IRIS program has some great animations that explain much about subduction zones http://www.iris.edu/hq/programs/education_and_outreach/animations In particular, here are a couple animations that show the elastic rebound effect in a subduction zone. http://www.iris.edu/hq/programs/education_and_outreach/animations#B In addition, the IRIS website puts out some educational information for significant earthquakes at http://www.iris.edu/hq/retm Hope these help. Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message ----- From: GPayton To: PSN Network List Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 10:34 AM Subject: Subduction Zone Profiles I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see what the actual profile view of the location of an event? I realize that such a profile is not universal or homogeneous. I may not be available because of the high possibility of variation along the interface. I can see where the plates meet each other and their approx. rate of interface, but not how the profile of that plate looks. The 8.8 Chilean event was shown eventually and was interesting to me in visualizing the occurrence.

Thanks Kay, but I meant "actual" profiles not animations of HOW = they=20 work. BUT, it will be good to see again.

Regards,

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Kay Wyatt=20

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 = 12:53=20 PM

Subject: Re: Subduction Zone=20 Profiles

Here are a few websites that might have what = you are=20 looking for..

The IRIS program has some great animations = that explain=20 much about subduction zones

http://www.iris.edu/hq/programs/education_and_outreach/animations

In particular, here are a couple animations = that show=20 the elastic rebound effect in a subduction zone.

http://www.iris.edu/hq/programs/education_and_outreach/animations#B

In addition, the IRIS website puts out some = educational=20 information for significant earthquakes at

http://www.iris.edu/hq/retm

Hope these help.

Kay Wyatt

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 GPayton

To: PSN Network List

Sent: Thursday, March 04, = 2010 10:34=20 AM

Subject: Subduction Zone = Profiles

I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at = to see=20 what the actual profile view of the location of an event? I = realize=20 that such a profile is not universal or homogeneous. I may not = be=20 available because of the high possibility of variation along the=20 interface.

I can see where the plates meet each other and their approx. = rate of=20 interface, but not how the profile of that plate looks.

The 8.8 Chilean event was shown eventually and was interesting = to=20 me in visualizing the occurrence.

Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:03:44 -0600 YES, and Bob Hancock's previous referral to http://www.iris.edu/hq/files/programs/education_and_outreach/retm/tm_100227_chile/100227_chile.pdf was extremely interesting. In fact, that is what prompted my interest. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wyatt To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles For specific earthquakes, the USGS has considerable information regarding profile views. For example, the 8.8 Chile earthquake at http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2010tfan.php#scitech Look at the seismicity cross section and the subduction zone geometry analysis. The finite fault model is interesting too. Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message ----- From: GPayton To: PSN Network List Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 10:34 AM Subject: Subduction Zone Profiles I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see what the actual profile view of the location of an event? I realize that such a profile is not universal or homogeneous. I may not be available because of the high possibility of variation along the interface. I can see where the plates meet each other and their approx. rate of interface, but not how the profile of that plate looks. The 8.8 Chilean event was shown eventually and was interesting to me in visualizing the occurrence.

YES, and Bob Hancock's previous referral to http://www.iris.edu/hq/files/programs/= education_and_outreach/retm/tm_100227_chile/100227_chile.pdf =20 was extremely interesting. In fact, that is what prompted my=20 interest.

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Kay Wyatt=20

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 = 12:58=20 PM

Subject: Re: Subduction Zone=20 Profiles

For specific earthquakes, the USGS has = considerable=20 information regarding profile views. For example, the 8.8 Chile=20 earthquake at

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quake= s/us2010tfan.php#scitech

Look at the seismicity cross section and the = subduction=20 zone geometry analysis. The finite fault model is interesting=20 too.

Kay Wyatt

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 GPayton

To: PSN Network List

Sent: Thursday, March 04, = 2010 10:34=20 AM

Subject: Subduction Zone = Profiles

I can see where the plates meet each other and their approx. = rate of=20 interface, but not how the profile of that plate looks.

The 8.8 Chilean event was shown eventually and was interesting = to=20 me in visualizing the occurrence.

Subject: Re: Volcano earthquakes From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 19:37:55 +0000 Hi all, The activity at Eyjafjallaj=F6kull volcano continues to increase at steady rate. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On fim, 2010-03-04 at 09:50 -0600, Thomas Dick wrote: > J=F3n > I looked at your site and I see what you are talking about. I don't=20 > think we can make too much of anything right now. With the big quake off=20 > Chile and the aftershocks and the other quakes around the globe since it=20 > is hard to tell ... and much harder to "forecast". I don't know about=20 > your equipment but these ocean storms have put mine in territory I=20 > haven't seen. Did you see where two ocean cruise liners in the=20 > Mediterrean had problems ... and surely you saw that stuff that happened=20 > in Spain. The earth is shaking from the inside and on the outside. > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:17:14 EST In a message dated 04/03/2010, gpayton@............. writes: I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see what the actual profile view of the location of an event? See _http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/Vigil.html_ (http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/Vigil.html)

In a message dated 04/03/2010, gpayton@............. writes:

I was=20 wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see what th= e=20 actual profile view of the location of an event?

See http://p= ubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/Vigil.html

Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:31:42 -0600 Thank you Chris. I obviously was not clear with my question. I am not looking for diagrams, explanations or animations. \ For example, suppose I was interested in the Juan De Fuca Plate sub under the North American Plate and wondered what its side profile looked like. I realize it is much more shallow there than the trenches in the South Pacific. My curiosity may be too detailed and not available except in an expensive technical journal or scientific site not accessible to me, I don't know. Thank you for you reply. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 4:17 PM Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles In a message dated 04/03/2010, gpayton@............. writes: I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see what the actual profile view of the location of an event? See http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/Vigil.html

Thank you Chris. =

I obviously was not = clear with my=20 question. I am not = looking for=20 diagrams, explanations or animations. \

For example, suppose = I was=20 interested in the Juan De Fuca Plate sub under the North American Plate = and=20 wondered what its side profile looked like. I realize it is much = more=20 shallow there than the trenches in the South Pacific. =

My curiosity may be too = detailed and=20 not available except in an expensive technical journal or scientific = site not=20 accessible to me, I don't know.

Thank you for you = reply.

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 = 4:17=20 PM

Subject: Re: Subduction Zone=20 Profiles

In a message dated 04/03/2010, gpayton@............. = writes:

I was=20 wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see = what the=20 actual profile view of the location of an=20 event?

See http://pubs.usgs.gov= /gip/dynamic/Vigil.html

Subject: Re: Volcano earthquakes From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 23:29:42 +0000 Hi all, The volcano Eyjafjallaj=F6kull shows no signs of stopping. Many of the Mag 2> earthquakes have stopped. But there are many mag <2 earthquakes. Most of them are mag 0 to 1 in size. If this continues as it does now, the volcano is going to start erupting in few hours time at the erliest. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:04:47 -0700 Jerry - The data you request used to be listed a lot more often that it is now. = I checked the current list of recent earthquakes and only found it the = data listed on two events, the M 8.8 Chile, and the M 7.0 Ryukyu = Islands. When listed you will find it under the Scientific & Technical = tab, and it is called Seismicity Cross Section. I also checked most of = the M 6.0 + listings on the 8-30 day list and did not find any with = Seismicity Cross Section. I can remember this being listed much more = often a few years ago than is currently done. The published focal mechanism is another source for the fault geometry = at the point of rupture, but it does not give the overall long view that = you obtain with Seismicity Cross Section.=20 Bob Hancock On Mar 4, 2010, at 3:31 PM, GPayton wrote: > Thank you Chris.=20 > =20 > I obviously was not clear with my question. I am not looking for = diagrams, explanations or animations. \ > =20 > For example, suppose I was interested in the Juan De Fuca Plate sub = under the North American Plate and wondered what its side profile looked = like. I realize it is much more shallow there than the trenches in the = South Pacific.=20 > =20 > My curiosity may be too detailed and not available except in an = expensive technical journal or scientific site not accessible to me, I = don't know. > =20 > Thank you for you reply. > Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ChrisAtUpw@....... > To: psn-l@.............. > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 4:17 PM > Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles >=20 > In a message dated 04/03/2010, gpayton@............. writes: > I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see = what the actual profile view of the location of an event?=20 > See http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/Vigil.html

Jerry -

The data you = request used to be listed a lot more often that it is now. I = checked the current list of recent earthquakes and only found it the = data listed on two events, the M 8.8 Chile, and the M 7.0 Ryukyu = Islands. When listed you will find it under the Scientific & = Technical tab, and it is called Seismicity Cross Section. I also = checked most of the M 6.0 + listings on the 8-30 day list and did not = find any with Seismicity Cross Section. I can remember this being = listed much more often a few years ago than is currently = done.

The published focal mechanism is another = source for the fault geometry at the point of rupture, but it does not = give the overall long view that you obtain with Seismicity Cross = Section.

Bob = Hancock

On Mar 4, 2010, at 3:31 PM, = GPayton wrote:

Thank = you Chris.

I obviously was not clear with my question. I am not looking for diagrams, explanations or = animations. \

For example, suppose I was interested in the Juan De Fuca = Plate sub under the North American Plate and wondered what its side = profile looked like. I realize it is much more shallow there than = the trenches in the South Pacific.

My curiosity may be too detailed and not = available except in an expensive technical journal or scientific site = not accessible to me, I don't know.

Thank you for you reply.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: ChrisAtUpw@.......
To: psn-l@..............
Thursday,= March 04, 2010 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Subduction Zone = Profiles

In a message dated 04/03/2010, gpayton@............. writes:
I was wondering if there is an online site that one may = look at to see what the actual profile view of the location of an = event?
See http://pubs.usgs.gov/= gip/dynamic/Vigil.html

= Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 18:10:49 -0600 Thanks Bob, That is what I was afraid of. I also seen those few exceptions. Probably too much trouble for anything but exceptional events. Oh well. Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Hancock To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 6:04 PM Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles Jerry - The data you request used to be listed a lot more often that it is now. I checked the current list of recent earthquakes and only found it the data listed on two events, the M 8.8 Chile, and the M 7.0 Ryukyu Islands. When listed you will find it under the Scientific & Technical tab, and it is called Seismicity Cross Section. I also checked most of the M 6.0 + listings on the 8-30 day list and did not find any with Seismicity Cross Section. I can remember this being listed much more often a few years ago than is currently done. The published focal mechanism is another source for the fault geometry at the point of rupture, but it does not give the overall long view that you obtain with Seismicity Cross Section. Bob Hancock On Mar 4, 2010, at 3:31 PM, GPayton wrote: Thank you Chris. I obviously was not clear with my question. I am not looking for diagrams, explanations or animations. \ For example, suppose I was interested in the Juan De Fuca Plate sub under the North American Plate and wondered what its side profile looked like. I realize it is much more shallow there than the trenches in the South Pacific. My curiosity may be too detailed and not available except in an expensive technical journal or scientific site not accessible to me, I don't know. Thank you for you reply. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 4:17 PM Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles In a message dated 04/03/2010, gpayton@............. writes: I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see what the actual profile view of the location of an event? See http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/Vigil.html

Thanks Bob,

That is what I was afraid of. I also seen those few = exceptions. =20 Probably too much trouble for anything but exceptional events. Oh=20 well.

Regards,

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Bob = Hancock=20

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 = 6:04=20 PM

Subject: Re: Subduction Zone=20 Profiles

Jerry -

The data you request used to be listed a lot more often that it = is now.=20 I checked the current list of recent earthquakes and only found = it the=20 data listed on two events, the M 8.8 Chile, and the M 7.0 Ryukyu = Islands.=20 When listed you will find it under the Scientific & = Technical tab,=20 and it is called Seismicity Cross Section. I also checked most = of the M=20 6.0 + listings on the 8-30 day list and did not find any with = Seismicity Cross=20 Section. I can remember this being listed much more often a few = years=20 ago than is currently done.

The published focal mechanism is another source for the fault = geometry at=20 the point of rupture, but it does not give the overall long view that = you=20 obtain with Seismicity Cross Section.

Bob Hancock

On Mar 4, 2010, at 3:31 PM, GPayton wrote:

Thank you = Chris.

I obviously was not = clear with=20 my question. I am not looking for diagrams, = explanations or=20 animations. \

For example, = suppose I was=20 interested in the Juan De Fuca Plate sub under the North American = Plate and=20 wondered what its side profile looked like. I realize it is = much more=20 shallow there than the trenches in the South = Pacific.

My curiosity may be too = detailed=20 and not available except in an expensive technical journal or = scientific=20 site not accessible to me, I don't know.

Thank you for you=20 reply.

Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From: ChrisAtUpw@.......

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Thursday, March 04, = 2010 4:17=20 PM

Subject: Re: Subduction Zone=20 Profiles

In a message dated 04/03/2010, gpayton@............. writes:
I=20 was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to = see=20 what the actual profile view of the location of an=20 event?

See http://pubs.usgs.gov= /gip/dynamic/Vigil.html

Subject: RE: Subduction Zone Profiles From: Jay Muza jmuza@........... Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 22:48:19 -0500 Jerry, there is an interesting paper at http://www.nsf-margins.org/Publica= tions/Newsletters/Issue14.pdf, which may be something similar to what you a= re interested in...and other issues of the same newsletter. Bob might be i= nterested in www.sakhalin.ca/imgg/seismology/tarakanov/01e.htm. I have a p= aper where I have done drill cored biostratigraphy across the Middle Americ= a Trench where you can clearly see the subduction of pelagic sediments and = associated faulting along the decollement as the Cocos plate begins its des= cent into the mantle. It is interesting to note the compression of the sed= iments above the basaltic ocean crust as it is subducted..almost an immedia= te 30% reduction in thickness...probably more than you want to know, but th= e seismic profile of the subduction zone in this paper is nice. Dr. Jay Muza Department of Physical Sciences Broward College Davie, FL 33314 Office: 954.201.6771 Cell: 954.736.8231 jmuza@........... ________________________________________ From: psn-l-request@.............. [psn-l-request@............... On Behalf= Of GPayton [gpayton@.............. Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 7:10 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles Thanks Bob, That is what I was afraid of. I also seen those few exceptions. Probably = too much trouble for anything but exceptional events. Oh well. Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Hancock To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 6:04 PM Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles Jerry - The data you request used to be listed a lot more often that it is now. I = checked the current list of recent earthquakes and only found it the data l= isted on two events, the M 8.8 Chile, and the M 7.0 Ryukyu Islands. When l= isted you will find it under the Scientific & Technical tab, and it is call= ed Seismicity Cross Section. I also checked most of the M 6.0 + listings o= n the 8-30 day list and did not find any with Seismicity Cross Section. I = can remember this being listed much more often a few years ago than is curr= ently done. The published focal mechanism is another source for the fault geometry at t= he point of rupture, but it does not give the overall long view that you ob= tain with Seismicity Cross Section. Bob Hancock On Mar 4, 2010, at 3:31 PM, GPayton wrote: Thank you Chris. I obviously was not clear with my question. I am not looking for diagrams, = explanations or animations. \ For example, suppose I was interested in the Juan De Fuca Plate sub under t= he North American Plate and wondered what its side profile looked like. I = realize it is much more shallow there than the trenches in the South Pacifi= c. My curiosity may be too detailed and not available except in an expensive t= echnical journal or scientific site not accessible to me, I don't know. Thank you for you reply. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 4:17 PM Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles In a message dated 04/03/2010, gpayton@............. writes: I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see what= the actual profile view of the location of an event? See http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/Vigil.html Please Note: Due to Florida's very broad public records law, most written c= ommunications to or from College employees regarding College business are p= ublic records, available to the public and media upon request. Therefore, t= his email communication may be subject to public disclosure. Please consider the environment before printing this email. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Subduction Zone Profiles From: Jay Muza jmuza@........... Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 22:52:17 -0500 Jerry, there is an interesting paper at http://www.nsf-margins.org/Publica= tions/Newsletters/Issue14.pdf, which may be something similar to what you a= re interested in...and other issues of the same newsletter. Bob might be i= nterested in www.sakhalin.ca/imgg/seismology/tarakanov/01e.htm. I have a p= aper where I have done drill cored biostratigraphy across the Middle Americ= a Trench where you can clearly see the subduction of pelagic sediments and = associated faulting along the decollement as the Cocos plate begins its des= cent into the mantle. It is interesting to note the compression of the sed= iments above the basaltic ocean crust as it is subducted..almost an immedia= te 30% reduction in thickness...probably more than you want to know, but th= e seismic profile of the subduction zone in this paper is nice (http://www-= odp.tamu.edu/publications/205_SR/211/211.htm) Dr. Jay Muza Department of Physical Sciences Broward College Davie, FL 33314 Office: 954.201.6771 Cell: 954.736.8231 jmuza@........... ________________________________________ From: psn-l-request@.............. [psn-l-request@............... On Behalf= Of GPayton [gpayton@.............. Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 7:10 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles Thanks Bob, That is what I was afraid of. I also seen those few exceptions. Probably = too much trouble for anything but exceptional events. Oh well. Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Hancock To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 6:04 PM Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles Jerry - The data you request used to be listed a lot more often that it is now. I = checked the current list of recent earthquakes and only found it the data l= isted on two events, the M 8.8 Chile, and the M 7.0 Ryukyu Islands. When l= isted you will find it under the Scientific & Technical tab, and it is call= ed Seismicity Cross Section. I also checked most of the M 6.0 + listings o= n the 8-30 day list and did not find any with Seismicity Cross Section. I = can remember this being listed much more often a few years ago than is curr= ently done. The published focal mechanism is another source for the fault geometry at t= he point of rupture, but it does not give the overall long view that you ob= tain with Seismicity Cross Section. Bob Hancock On Mar 4, 2010, at 3:31 PM, GPayton wrote: Thank you Chris. I obviously was not clear with my question. I am not looking for diagrams, = explanations or animations. \ For example, suppose I was interested in the Juan De Fuca Plate sub under t= he North American Plate and wondered what its side profile looked like. I = realize it is much more shallow there than the trenches in the South Pacifi= c. My curiosity may be too detailed and not available except in an expensive t= echnical journal or scientific site not accessible to me, I don't know. Thank you for you reply. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 4:17 PM Subject: Re: Subduction Zone Profiles In a message dated 04/03/2010, gpayton@............. writes: I was wondering if there is an online site that one may look at to see what= the actual profile view of the location of an event? See http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/Vigil.html Please Note: Due to Florida's very broad public records law, most written c= ommunications to or from College employees regarding College business are p= ublic records, available to the public and media upon request. Therefore, t= his email communication may be subject to public disclosure. Please consider the environment before printing this email. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Web cameras From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:47:04 +0000 Hi all, Due the possiblity of a eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull I have added web cameras that I know about to my web page under a new page called web cameras. Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. It has been continues now for three days now. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Web cameras From: Pete Rowe ptrowe@......... Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 14:55:53 -0800 (PST) Hello Jon I went to your website but I cannot find the webcam page. Where do I look? I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. Thanks, Pete --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann Subject: Web cameras To: "PSN-Postlist" Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12:47 PM Hi all, Due the possiblity of a eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull I have added web cameras that I know about to my web page under a new page called web cameras. Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. It has been continues now for three days now. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) =0A=0A=0A

Hello Jon
I went to your website but I can= not find the webcam page. Where do I look?
I am interested in seeing Eyj= afjallaj=F6kull.
Thanks,
Pete

--- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr= =EDmann <jonfr@.........> wrote:

From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........>
Subject: Web camera= s
To: "PSN-Postlist" <PSN-L@..............>
Date: Friday, March= 5, 2010, 12:47 PM

Hi all,

Due the p= ossiblity of a eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull I have added web
cameras t= hat I know about to my web page under a new page called web
cameras.
=
Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. It has been continues now for=
three days now.

Regards,
--
J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson

_________________________________________________________= _

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this l= ist email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. w= ith
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.= seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

=0A=0A Subject: RE: Web cameras From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:06:42 -0800 Pete, It is night there now. Let's wait until tomorrow. Gary =20 =20 =20 =20 From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of Pete Rowe Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 2:56 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Web cameras =20 Hello Jon I went to your website but I cannot find the webcam page. Where do I = look? I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. Thanks, Pete --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann Subject: Web cameras To: "PSN-Postlist" Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12:47 PM Hi all, Due the possiblity of a eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull I have added web cameras that I know about to my web page under a new page called web cameras. Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. It has been continues now for three days now. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) =20

Pete,

It is night there now. Let's wait until = tomorrow.

Gary

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Pete Rowe
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 2:56 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: Web cameras

Hello Jon
I went to your website but I cannot find the webcam page. Where do I = look?
I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull.
Thanks,
Pete

--- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann = <jonfr@.........> wrote:

From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........>
Subject: Web cameras
To: "PSN-Postlist" <PSN-L@..............>
Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12:47 PM

Hi all,

Due the possiblity of a eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull I have added = web
cameras that I know about to my web page under a new page called = web
cameras.

Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. It has been continues now = for
three days now.

Regards,
--
J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson

__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEIS= MICNET.COM with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Subject: Re: Web cameras From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 23:18:18 +0000 Hi Pete, Please refresh your web browser cache if you don't see a link named web cameras. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 14:55 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: > Hello Jon > I went to your website but I cannot find the webcam page. Where do I > look? > I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. > Thanks, > Pete >=20 > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: > =20 > From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Subject: Web cameras > To: "PSN-Postlist" > Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12:47 PM > =20 > Hi all, > =20 > Due the possiblity of a eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull I have > added web > cameras that I know about to my web page under a new page > called web > cameras. > =20 > Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. It has been continues > now for > three days now. > =20 > Regards, > --=20 > J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson > =20 > __________________________________________________________ > =20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > =20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > information. > =20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Web cameras From: "Kareem J. Lanier" system98765@............. Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:26:31 -0800 Why don=92t you include the link in your email message? -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:18 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Web cameras Hi Pete, Please refresh your web browser cache if you don't see a link named web cameras. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 14:55 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: > Hello Jon > I went to your website but I cannot find the webcam page. Where do I > look? > I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. > Thanks, > Pete >=20 > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: > =20 > From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Subject: Web cameras > To: "PSN-Postlist" > Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12:47 PM > =20 > Hi all, > =20 > Due the possiblity of a eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull I have > added web > cameras that I know about to my web page under a new page > called web > cameras. > =20 > Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. It has been = continues > now for > three days now. > =20 > Regards, > --=20 > J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson > =20 > __________________________________________________________ > =20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > =20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > information. > =20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Web cameras From: Pete Rowe ptrowe@......... Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:27:50 -0800 (PST) Hi Jon I don't find web cameras on your home page so I must be looking at the wron= g page. I'm looking at www.jonfr.com. Yes, I realize that it is dark in Ice= land now but I would like to find the web camera page so I'm ready for tomo= rrow. Thanks, Pete --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann Subject: Re: Web cameras To: psn-l@.............. Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 3:18 PM Hi Pete, Please refresh your web browser cache if you don't see a link named web cameras. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 14:55 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: > Hello Jon > I went to your website but I cannot find the webcam page. Where do I > look? > I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. > Thanks, > Pete >=20 > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Subject: Web cameras >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0To: "PSN-Postlist" >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12:47 PM >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Hi all, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Due the possiblity of a eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kul= l I have >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0added web >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0cameras that I know about to my web page under a new = page >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0called web >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0cameras. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. It has been= continues >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0now for >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0three days now. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Regards, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0--=20 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0_____________________________________________________= _____ >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@............... with >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0the body of the message (first line only): unsubscrib= e >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0information. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) =0A=0A=0A

Hi Jon
I don't find web cameras on your ho= me page so I must be looking at the wrong page. I'm looking at www.jonfr.co= m. Yes, I realize that it is dark in Iceland now but I would like to find t= he web camera page so I'm ready for tomorrow.
Thanks,
Pete

---= On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........> wrot= e:

From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@......... m>
Subject: Re: Web cameras
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Frid= ay, March 5, 2010, 3:18 PM

Hi Pete,

= Please refresh your web browser cache if you don't see a link named web
= cameras.

Regards,
J=F3n Fr=EDmann.

On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at= 14:55 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote:
> Hello Jon
> I went to your web= site but I cannot find the webcam page. Where do I
> look?
> I am interes= ted in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull.
> Thanks,
> Pete
>
= > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........> w= rote:
>
> &= nbsp;    From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........&= gt;
>    Subject: Web cameras
&= gt;    To: "PSN-Postlist" <PSN-L@..............>
>   &= nbsp;Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12:47 PM
> &nbs= p;
>    Hi all,
>= ;
>    Du= e the possiblity of a eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull I have
> &= nbsp;    added web
> =   cameras that I know about to my web page under a new page
&g= t;    called web
> &n= bsp;    cameras.
>   &nb= sp;
>    Activity continues in Eyj= afjallaj=F6kull. It has been continues
> &n= bsp; now for
>    three days = now.
>
> &n= bsp;    Regards,
>   &nb= sp;--
>    J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3ns= son
>
>    _________________________________________________= _________
>
> &nbs= p;    Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
= >
> &nb= sp;  To leave this list email PSN-= L-REQUEST@.............. with
>   &= nbsp;the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
> &= nbsp;    See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html f= or more
>    information.
>&= nbsp;

_________________________= _________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing Lis= t (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN= -L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first line o= nly): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more in= formation.

=0A=0A Subject: Re: Web cameras From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 23:38:39 +0000 Hi Pete, Please go to http://earthquakes.jonfr.com too see my web cams, you are currently just looking at my blog that is on my main domain. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 15:27 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: > Hi Jon > I don't find web cameras on your home page so I must be looking at the > wrong page. I'm looking at www.jonfr.com. Yes, I realize that it is > dark in Iceland now but I would like to find the web camera page so > I'm ready for tomorrow. > Thanks, > Pete >=20 > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: > =20 > From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Subject: Re: Web cameras > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 3:18 PM > =20 > Hi Pete, > =20 > Please refresh your web browser cache if you don't see a link > named web > cameras. > =20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > =20 > On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 14:55 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: > > Hello Jon > > I went to your website but I cannot find the webcam page. > Where do I > > look? > > I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. > > Thanks, > > Pete > >=20 > > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: > > =20 > > From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Subject: Web cameras > > To: "PSN-Postlist" > > Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12:47 PM > > =20 > > Hi all, > > =20 > > Due the possiblity of a eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull > I have > > added web > > cameras that I know about to my web page under a new > page > > called web > > cameras. > > =20 > > Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. It has been > continues > > now for > > three days now. > > =20 > > Regards, > > --=20 > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson > > =20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > =20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > =20 > > To leave this list email > PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): > unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > > information. > > =20 > =20 > =20 > __________________________________________________________ > =20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > =20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > information. > =20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Web cameras From: Pete Rowe ptrowe@......... Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:42:33 -0800 (PST) Thank you Jon Are you in any danger from the eruption? Good luck Pete --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann Subject: Re: Web cameras To: psn-l@.............. Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 3:38 PM Hi Pete, Please go to http://earthquakes.jonfr.com too see my web cams, you are currently just looking at my blog that is on my main domain. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 15:27 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: > Hi Jon > I don't find web cameras on your home page so I must be looking at the > wrong page. I'm looking at www.jonfr.com. Yes, I realize that it is > dark in Iceland now but I would like to find the web camera page so > I'm ready for tomorrow. > Thanks, > Pete >=20 > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Subject: Re: Web cameras >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0To: psn-l@.............. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 3:18 PM >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Hi Pete, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Please refresh your web browser cache if you don't se= e a link >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0named web >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0cameras. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Regards, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 14:55 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> Hello Jon >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> I went to your website but I cannot find the webcam= page. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Where do I >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> look? >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> Thanks, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> Pete >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=20 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Subject: Web cameras >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0To: "PSN-Postlist" >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12= :47 PM >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Hi all, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Due the possiblity of a eruptio= n in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0I have >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0added web >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0cameras that I know about to my= web page under a new >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0page >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0called web >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0cameras. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Activity continues in Eyjafjall= aj=F6kull. It has been >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0continues >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0now for >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0three days now. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Regards, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0--=20 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 __________________________________________________= ________ >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Public Seismic Network Mailing = List (PSN-L) >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0To leave this list email >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0the body of the message (first = line only): >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0unsubscribe >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0See http://www.seismicnet.com/m= aillist.html for more >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0information. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0_____________________________________________________= _____ >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@............... with >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0the body of the message (first line only): unsubscrib= e >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0information. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) =0A=0A=0A

Thank you Jon
Are you in any danger from t= he eruption?
Good luck
Pete

--- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=ED= mann <jonfr@.........> wrote:

=
From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........>
Subject: Re: Web camer= as
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 3:38 PM
<= br>
Hi Pete,

Please go to http://earthquakes.jonfr.com t= oo see my web cams, you are
currently just looking at my blog that is on= my main domain.

Regards,
J=F3n Fr=EDmann.

On f=F6s, 2010-= 03-05 at 15:27 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote:
> Hi Jon
> I don't find = web cameras on your home page so I must be looking at the
> wrong pag= e. I'm looking at www.jonfr.com. Yes, I realize that it is
> dark in Iceland now but I= would like to find the web camera page so
> I'm ready for tomorrow.<= br>> Thanks,
> Pete
>
> --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr= =EDmann <jonfr@.........> wrote:
> =
>    From: J= =F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........>
> =    Subject: Re: Web cameras
> &nb= sp;  To: psn-l@..............
> &n= bsp;    Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 3:18 PM
>&= nbsp;
> &n= bsp; Hi Pete,
>
> =    Please refresh your web browser cache if you don't= see a link
>    named web
>=    cameras.
> =
>    Regards,<= br>>    J=F3n Fr=EDmann.
> = ;
>   = On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 14:55 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote:
> &= nbsp;    > Hello Jon
> &= nbsp;  > I went to your website but I cannot find the webcam p= age.
>    Where do I
> =    > look?
> &nb= sp;  > I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull.
>    > Tha= nks,
>    > Pete
> =    >
> &nb= sp; > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........<= /a>> wrote:
>    > &nb= sp;
>    = ;>    From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann <= jonfr@.........>
>    >&= nbsp;    Subject: Web cameras
> &n= bsp;    >    To= : "PSN-Postlist" <PSN-L@..............>= ;
>    > &n= bsp;  Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12:47 PM
> =    >
>= ;    > &nbs= p; Hi all,
>    > &n= bsp;
>   &nbs= p;>    Due the possiblity of a erupti= on in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull
>    I ha= ve
>    > &= nbsp;  added web
>    &g= t;    cameras that I know about to my we= b page under a new
>    page
>    >&= nbsp;    called web
> = ;    >    cameras.
= >    > &= nbsp;
>    > =    Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. It has = been
>    continues
> =    >    = now for
>    > &nb= sp;    three days now.
> &nb= sp; >
> &= nbsp;    >    Regards,=
>    >    --
>    = ;>    J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson
&g= t;    > &nb= sp;
>    >
> = ________________________________________= __________________
>    > =
>   &= nbsp;>    Public Seismic Network Mail= ing List (PSN-L)
>    > &= nbsp;
>   &nb= sp;>    To leave this list email
&= gt;    PSN-L-REQUEST@SEISM= ICNET.COM with
>    > =    the body of the message (first line only):=
>    unsubscribe
> &n= bsp;    >    Se= e htt= p://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more
> &nbs= p;    >    information= ..
>    > &n= bsp;
>
>&nbs= p;
>   = ; __________________________________________________________
>&n= bsp;
>    Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
> = ;
>   = To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST= @.............. with
>    the = body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
> &nb= sp;    See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more>    information.
> &nb= sp;

__________________________________= ________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEISM= ICNET.COM with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscrib= e
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

=0A=0A Subject: Re: Web cameras From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 23:50:16 +0000 Hi Pete, The eruption has not yet started. But large parts of Iceland might have problems with ash from the volcano. But that is dependent on wind so I cant tell at the moment. The earthquakes in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull continues and show no signs of stopping. They have now been constat for 3 days now. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 15:42 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: > Thank you Jon > Are you in any danger from the eruption? > Good luck > Pete >=20 > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: > =20 > From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Subject: Re: Web cameras > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 3:38 PM > =20 > Hi Pete, > =20 > Please go to http://earthquakes.jonfr.com too see my web cams, > you are > currently just looking at my blog that is on my main domain. > =20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > =20 > On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 15:27 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: > > Hi Jon > > I don't find web cameras on your home page so I must be > looking at the > > wrong page. I'm looking at www.jonfr.com. Yes, I realize > that it is > > dark in Iceland now but I would like to find the web camera > page so > > I'm ready for tomorrow. > > Thanks, > > Pete > >=20 > > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: > > =20 > > From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Subject: Re: Web cameras > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 3:18 PM > > =20 > > Hi Pete, > > =20 > > Please refresh your web browser cache if you don't > see a link > > named web > > cameras. > > =20 > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > =20 > > On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 14:55 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: > > > Hello Jon > > > I went to your website but I cannot find the > webcam page. > > Where do I > > > look? > > > I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. > > > Thanks, > > > Pete > > >=20 > > > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann > wrote: > > > =20 > > > From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > Subject: Web cameras > > > To: "PSN-Postlist" > > > Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12:47 PM > > > =20 > > > Hi all, > > > =20 > > > Due the possiblity of a eruption in > Eyjafjallaj=F6kull > > I have > > > added web > > > cameras that I know about to my web page > under a new > > page > > > called web > > > cameras. > > > =20 > > > Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. It > has been > > continues > > > now for > > > three days now. > > > =20 > > > Regards, > > > --=20 > > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson > > > =20 > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > =20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List > (PSN-L) > > > =20 > > > To leave this list email > > PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > > the body of the message (first line only): > > unsubscribe > > > See > http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > > > information. > > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > =20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > =20 > > To leave this list email > PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): > unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > > information. > > =20 > =20 > =20 > __________________________________________________________ > =20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > =20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > information. > =20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Web cameras From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 19:31:54 -0800 (PST) All Here is a little more info. http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=3D1702-02=3D Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann Subject: Re: Web cameras To: psn-l@.............. Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 3:38 PM Hi Pete, Please go to http://earthquakes.jonfr.com=0A too see my web cams, you are currently just looking at my blog that is on my main domain. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 15:27 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: > Hi Jon > I don't find web cameras on your home page so I must be looking at the > wrong page. I'm looking at www.jonfr.com. Yes, I realize that it is > dark in Iceland now but I would like to find the web camera page so > I'm ready for tomorrow. > Thanks, > Pete >=20 > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Subject: Re: Web cameras >=A0 =A0 =A0=0A =A0=A0=A0To: psn-l@.............. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 3:18 PM >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Hi Pete, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Please refresh your web browser cache if you don't se= e a link >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0named web >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0cameras. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Regards, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0On f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 14:55 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> Hello Jon >=A0=0A =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> I went to your website but I cannot find the web= cam page. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Where do I >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> look? >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> Thanks, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> Pete >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=20 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Subject: Web cameras >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0To: "PSN-Postlist" >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12= :47 PM >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Hi all, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Due the possiblity of a eruptio= n in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull >=A0 =A0=0A =A0 =A0=A0=A0I have >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0added web >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0cameras that I know about to my= web page under a new >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0page >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0called web >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0cameras. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Activity continues in Eyjafjall= aj=F6kull. It has been >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0continues >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0now for >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0=0A =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0three days now. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Regards, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0--=20 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 __________________________________________________= ________ >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Public Seismic Network Mailing = List (PSN-L) >=A0 =A0 =A0=0A =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0To leave this list email >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0the body of the message (first = line only): >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0unsubscribe >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0See http://www.seismicnet.com/m= aillist.html for more >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0information. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0=0A =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0_____________________________________________________= _____ >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@............... with >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0the body of the message (first line only): unsubscrib= e >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0information. >=A0 =A0 =A0=0A =A0=A0=A0 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

All
Here is a lit= tle more info.

http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=3D1702-02= =3D
http://www.seismicvault.com

--- On Fri= , 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........> wrote:

From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........>
S= ubject: Re: Web cameras
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Friday, March = 5, 2010, 3:38 PM

Hi Pete,

Please go = to http://earthquakes.jonfr.com=0A = too see my web cams, you are
currently just looking at my blog that is o= n my main domain.

Regards,
J=F3n Fr=EDmann.

On f=F6s, 2010= -03-05 at 15:27 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote:
> Hi Jon
> I don't find= web cameras on your home page so I must be looking at the
> wrong pa= ge. I'm looking at www.jonfr.com. Yes, I realize that it is
> dark in= Iceland now but I would like to find the web camera page so
> I'm re= ady for tomorrow.
> Thanks,
> Pete
>
> --- On Fri,= 3/5/10, J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........> wr= ote:
>
> &n= bsp;    From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@= jonfr.com>
>    Subject: Re= : Web cameras
> =0A    To: psn-l@..............
> &n= bsp; Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 3:18 PM
> =
>    Hi Pete,>
> &= nbsp;  Please refresh your web browser cache if you don't see a l= ink
>    named web
> &= nbsp;    cameras.
> &= nbsp;
>    Regards,
>&= nbsp;    J=F3n Fr=EDmann.
> =
>    On= f=F6s, 2010-03-05 at 14:55 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote:
> &n= bsp;    > Hello Jon
> =0A =   > I went to your website but I cannot find the webcam page.<= br>>    Where do I
> &nbs= p;    > look?
> &n= bsp; > I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj=F6kull.
> =    > Thanks,
> &n= bsp;  > Pete
>    >= ;
>    > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J= =F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........> wrote:
&g= t;    > &nb= sp;
>    > &= nbsp;    From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr= @.........>
>    > =    Subject: Web cameras
>    > &n= bsp;    To: "PSN-Postlist" <PSN-L@SEI= SMICNET.COM>
>    > = ;    Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12:47 PM
= >    > &= nbsp;
>    > =    Hi all,
>   &= nbsp;>
> = ;    >    Due the poss= iblity of a eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull
> =0A &= nbsp;  I have
>    >&= nbsp;    added web
> =    >    cameras that = I know about to my web page under a new
> &= nbsp; page
>    > &n= bsp;    called web
> =   >    cameras.
>&nbs= p;    >   &nb= sp;
>    > =    Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. It has been
= >    continues
> &= nbsp;    >    now for<= br>>    > =0A &= nbsp;  three days now.
>   &n= bsp;>
> =    >    Regards,
&= gt;    > &n= bsp; --
>    > &nbs= p;    J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson
> =    >
>= ;    >
> &n= bsp; ________________________________________________________= __
>    > &= nbsp;
>    > =    Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=
> =0A    > =
>    > =    To leave this list email
> &nb= sp;    PSN-L-REQUEST@............. OM with
>    > =    the body of the message (first line only):
>= ;    unsubscribe
> &n= bsp;    >    See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more
> &= nbsp;    >    i= nformation.
>    > =
> =0A    = ;
>
> = ;    _______________________________________________________= ___
>
> &nb= sp;    Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
>&n= bsp;
> &nb= sp; To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEISMIC= NET.COM with
>    the body of = the message (first line only): unsubscribe
> &nbs= p;  See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html f= or more
>    information.
>&= nbsp; =0A

______________________= ____________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing = List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQU= EST@.............. with
the body of the message (first line only): u= nsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html f= or more information.

Subject: Re: Web cameras From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 18:19:19 -0700 Hi Mr. Fr�mann, Can you please make an Mp3 file of how to pronounce the word Hvammstangi, in English ?? My tongue gets tied in knots when I imagine how to say your words. :-S Great interest in seismology, wish you well. Best Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "J�n Fr�mann" To: Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 4:38 PM Subject: Re: Web cameras Hi Pete, Please go to http://earthquakes.jonfr.com too see my web cams, you are currently just looking at my blog that is on my main domain. Regards, J�n Fr�mann. On f�s, 2010-03-05 at 15:27 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: > Hi Jon > I don't find web cameras on your home page so I must be looking at the > wrong page. I'm looking at www.jonfr.com. Yes, I realize that it is > dark in Iceland now but I would like to find the web camera page so > I'm ready for tomorrow. > Thanks, > Pete > > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J�n Fr�mann wrote: > > From: J�n Fr�mann > Subject: Re: Web cameras > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 3:18 PM > > Hi Pete, > > Please refresh your web browser cache if you don't see a link > named web > cameras. > > Regards, > J�n Fr�mann. > > On f�s, 2010-03-05 at 14:55 -0800, Pete Rowe wrote: > > Hello Jon > > I went to your website but I cannot find the webcam page. > Where do I > > look? > > I am interested in seeing Eyjafjallaj�kull. > > Thanks, > > Pete > > > > --- On Fri, 3/5/10, J�n Fr�mann wrote: > > > > From: J�n Fr�mann > > Subject: Web cameras > > To: "PSN-Postlist" > > Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 12:47 PM > > > > Hi all, > > > > Due the possiblity of a eruption in Eyjafjallaj�kull > I have > > added web > > cameras that I know about to my web page under a new > page > > called web > > cameras. > > > > Activity continues in Eyjafjallaj�kull. It has been > continues > > now for > > three days now. > > > > Regards, > > -- > > J�n Fr�mann J�nsson > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email > PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): > unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > > information. > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Popular Science From: "Randall Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 16:05:46 -0600 I was informed Popular Science magazine has been scanned entirely and is available online for free. I found many seismograph articles by searching at the website. http://www.popsci. com/archives Enjoy. Randy

I was informed Popular Science magazine has been = scanned entirely and is available online for free. I found many = seismograph articles by searching at the website.

http://www.popsci. = com/archives

Enjoy.

Randy

Subject: Re: Popular Science From: JToledo@............. Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 16:20:43 -0600 txn for such an important t source of info |----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----| | F.Jose Toledo | CONRED | = | | Unidad: OFICIAL DE MONITOREO | Celular: 5-2012109 | E-mail: = | | jtoledo@............. = | | [ Direcci=F3n: Ave. Hincapi=E9 21-72 Zona 13 Tel:2324-0800 Ext= .. | | 1116][Guatemala, Guatemala 01013 Guatemala C.A. ] = | |----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----| = __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Popular Science From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 15:31:03 -0700 Randy, This is great, thanks,=20 Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Randall Pratt=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 3:05 PM Subject: Popular Science I was informed Popular Science magazine has been scanned entirely and = is available online for free. I found many seismograph articles by = searching at the website. =20 http://www.popsci. com/archives =20 Enjoy. =20 Randy

Randy, This is great, thanks, =

Ted

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Randall=20 Pratt

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 = 3:05=20 PM

Subject: Popular Science

I was informed Popular = Science=20 magazine has been scanned entirely and is available online for = free. I=20 found many seismograph articles by searching at the=20 website.

http://www.popsci.=20 com/archives

Enjoy.

Randy

Subject: Re: Popular Science From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 18:32:28 EST In a message dated 09/03/2010, rpratt@............. writes: I was informed Popular Science magazine has been scanned entirely and is available online for free. I found many seismograph articles by searching at the website. _http://www.popsci. com/archives_ (http://www.popsci) Hi Randy, What words did you use to search? I can't find anything interesting with seismometer or seismograph. Regards, Chris

In a message dated 09/03/2010, rpratt@............. writes:

I was informed Popular Science=20 magazine has been scanned entirely and is available online for free.&nbs= p;I=20 found many seismograph articles by searching at the=20 website.

http://www.popsci.=20 com/archives

Hi Randy,

What words did you use to search? I can't fin= d=20 anything interesting with seismometer or seismograph.

Regards,

Chris

Subject: Re: Popular Science From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 18:02:59 -0800 (PST) Hi Chris I found articles by typing "seismology". Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Tue, 3/9/10, ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Subject: Re: Popular Science To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 3:32 PM =0A=0A =0A=0A=0AIn a message dated 09/03/2010, rpratt@............. writes:= =0A=0A I was informed Popular Science =0A magazine has been scanned entir= ely and is available online for free.=A0I =0A found many seismograph artic= les by searching at the =0A website. =0A =A0http://www.popsci. =0A com/= archives =0A=0AHi Randy,=0A=A0=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0What words did you use to sear= ch? I can't find =0Aanything interesting with seismometer or seismograph.= =0A=A0=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0Regards,=0A=A0=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0Chris

Hi Chris
I found articles by typing "seism= ology".

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

--- = On Tue, 3/9/10, ChrisAtUpw@....... <ChrisAtUpw@.......>= wrote:

From: ChrisAtUpw@....... <ChrisA= tUpw@.......>
Subject: Re: Popular Science
To: psn-l@.............. m
Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 3:32 PM

= =0A=0A =0A=0A
=0A
In a message dated 09/03/2010, rpratt@............. = writes:
=0A
=0A
I was informed Popular Science =0A magazine has been scanned entir= ely and is available online for free. I =0A found many seismograph ar= ticles by searching at the =0A website.
=0A
http://www.popsci. =0A com/archives
=0A
=0A
Hi Randy,=0A

=0A
    What words did you use= to search? I can't find =0Aanything interesting with seismometer or seismo= graph.
=0A

=0A
    Regards,=0A

=0A
    Chris

Subject: Speaker Like Sensor ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 20:46:06 -0700 Hello instrument folks, Is it possible to get a speaker company to build the mechanism like a speaker without a cone that would be like 500 to 10K OHMS or more instead of the typical 8 ohms ? I think it may be the best of all sensors for a velocity type anything geophone ?? Comments ? It seems to me if you are going to make the coil a part of the mechanism you need that special delicate speaker wire that is braided with cloth so that the springy nature of the wire will not be there to affect your results? geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Speaker Like Sensor ? From: rg richg_1998@......... Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 19:59:32 -0800 (PST) There are 100 ohm speakers available. The largest I know of is 40 mm round. Rich O.S. Linux Mint 7 No Gates or Windows --- On Tue, 3/9/10, Geoffrey wrote: > From: Geoffrey > Subject: Speaker Like Sensor ? > To: "PSN-LIST" > Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 10:46 PM > Hello instrument folks, > > Is it possible to get a speaker company to > build the mechanism like a speaker > without a cone that would be like > 500 to 10K OHMS or more instead of > the typical 8 ohms ? > > I think it may be the best of all sensors > for a velocity type anything geophone ?? > > Comments ? > > It seems to me if you are going to > make the coil a part of the mechanism > you need that special delicate speaker > wire that is braided with cloth so that the springy nature > of the wire > will not be there to affect your results? > > geoff > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Filter input From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 21:30:25 -0800 (PST) Hi All I was using multipole LP filters with my seismographs. They use the opamp non-inverting input. The note with the filter design says that the input " must return to ground via a low-impedance dc path". I wanted to reduce in half the input to the filter. I know the output of an opamp buffer would work but if I used a voltage divider w/o the buffer how low of resistor would be considered "low impedance". Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com

Hi All
I was using multipole LP filters with my seismographs. They use the opamp non-inverting input. The note with the filter design says that the input " must return to ground via a low-impedance dc path". I wanted to reduce in half the input to the filter. I know the output of an opamp buffer would work but if I used a voltage divider w/o the buffer how low of resistor would be considered "low impedance".

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

Subject: Re: Filter input From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 06:52:41 EST In a message dated 10/03/2010, barry_lotz@............. writes: Hi All I was using multipole LP filters with my seismographs. They use the opamp non-inverting input. The note with the filter design says that the input " must return to ground via a low-impedance dc path". I wanted to reduce in half the input to the filter. I know the output of an opamp buffer would work but if I used a voltage divider w/o the buffer how low of resistor would be considered "low impedance". Hi Barry, You can download a FREE filter design program from _www.ti.com_ (http://www.ti.com) called FILTERPRO. The 'return to ground' is either the earth end of the coil or the zero level of the previous opamp. If you are using a Sallen&Key filter and want to reduce the input sensitivity, you can connect a resistor 1/10 the input filter resistor value to earth and put a >x10 resistor onto the junction. Regards, Chris Chapman

In a message dated 10/03/2010, barry_lotz@............. writes:

Hi=20 All
I was using multipole LP filters with my seismographs. They use= the=20 opamp non-inverting input. The note with the filter design says that the= input=20 " must return to ground via a low-impedance dc path". I wanted to reduce= in=20 half the input to the filter. I know the output of an opamp buffer would= work=20 but if I used a voltage divider w/o the buffer how low of resistor would= be=20 considered "low impedance".

Hi Barry,

You can download a FREE filter design program= from=20 www.ti.com called FILTERPRO.

The 'return to ground' is either the earth en= d of=20 the coil or the zero level of the previous opamp. If you are using a=20 Sallen&Key filter and want to reduce the input sensitivity, you can co= nnect=20 a resistor 1/10 the input filter resistor value to earth and put a >x10= =20 resistor onto the junction.

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Speaker Like Sensor ? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:14:31 EST In a message dated 10/03/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: Hello instrument folks, Is it possible to get a speaker company to build the mechanism like a speaker without a cone that would be like 500 to 10K OHMS or more instead of the typical 8 ohms ? I think it may be the best of all sensors for a velocity type anything geophone ? Comments ? Hi Geoff, If you wanted 10,000 off, maybe. Speakers mostly use ferrite magnets which are weak and temperature sensitive. The coils are designed with tiny clearances to suit an in/out motion and don't work too well with coils moving in the arc of a circle. You can get small speakers with 1000 ohm coils. You definitely DON'T want coils much above 500 Ohms, or the resistance noise will be more than the background signal. Resistor noise is broad band. Using quad NdFeB magnets on mild steel backing plates and flat rectangular coils is the easiest construction for amateurs. See _http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html_ (http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html) for a coil + magnet drawing. Regards, Chris Chapman

In a message dated 10/03/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:

Hello=20 instrument folks,

Is it possible to get a speaker company to buil= d the=20 mechanism like a speaker without a cone that would be like 500 to 10K OH= MS or=20 more instead of the typical 8 ohms ?

I think it may be the best= of all=20 sensors for a velocity type anything geophone ?

Comments=20 ?

Hi Geoff,

If you wanted 10,000 off, maybe.

Speakers mostly use ferrite magnets which are= weak=20 and temperature sensitive. The coils are designed with tiny clearances to= suit=20 an in/out motion and don't work too well with coils moving in the arc of= a=20 circle. You can get small speakers with 1000 ohm coils.

You definitely DON'T want coils much above 50= 0=20 Ohms, or the resistance noise will be more than the background signal. Res= istor=20 noise is broad band.

Using quad NdFeB magnets on mild steel backin= g=20 plates and flat rectangular coils is the easiest construction for amateurs= .. See=20 http:= //jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html for a=20 coil + magnet drawing.

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Popular Science Seismograph plans (1965) From: "K.-Benoit Evans" kevans@............ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:58:59 -0500 Does anyone have an opinion on the Pop Sci seismograph plans from 1965? = Could it be modernized and be useful today? = http://www.popsci.com/archive-viewer?id=3DWiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=3D135&query=3Dea= rthquake+detector Regards, Beno=EEt Evans Does = anyone have an opinion on the Pop Sci seismograph plans from 1965? Could = it be modernized and be useful today?

http://www.popsci.com/archive-viewer?id= =3DWiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=3D135&query=3Dearthquake+detector

These are great old magazines, like = going back in=20 time...........One thing of interest was the magnifying arm. = Has=20 anyone tried this?

Ted

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 K.-Benoit=20 Evans

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 = 5:58=20 AM

Subject: Re: Popular Science = Seismograph=20 plans (1965)

Does anyone have an opinion on the Pop Sci seismograph = plans=20 from 1965? Could it be modernized and be useful today?

http://www.popsci.com/archive-viewer?= id=3DWiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=3D135&query=3Dearthquake+detector

Regards,

Beno=EEt = Evans

Subject: Re: Popular Science Seismograph plans (1965) From: FRANK COOPER fxc@........... Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 05:49:31 -0800 (PST) Hi Benoit and all, I constructed that very same seismograph in 1969 and believe that I did det= ect earthquakes with it. I just didn't recognize the earthquake wave forms = that we are all so familiar with now. There was no PSN in those days and I = was on my own. I believe that it could be made into a workable seismograph = (sensor) even though made of wood. My 14 year old son, shown in one of the = pictures, is 52 years old now. See my web page (url below) for pictures. Click on "MY ANALOG SEISMOGRAPH = IN 1969" (JUST BELOW THE PICTURE OF THE Shackleford-Gunderson seismograph s= ensor near the bottom of the page). SEE MY WEB PAGE AT www.seequake.com Frank Cooper, Friendswood, Texas, PSN and ATN member. =20 --- On Wed, 3/10/10, K.-Benoit Evans wrote: > From: K.-Benoit Evans > Subject: Re: Popular Science Seismograph plans (1965) > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 6:58 AM > Does anyone have an > opinion on the Pop Sci seismograph plans from 1965? Could it > be modernized and be useful today? > http://www.popsci.com/archive-viewer?id=3DWiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=3D135&query=3De= arthquake+detector >=20 >=20 > Regards, > Beno=EEt Evans >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Popular Science From: "Randall Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:53:14 -0600 Hi Chris, I just used seismograph. The degree of interesting against latest designs might be marginal but historical. One of the articles is what got me interested back in the 60's. Randy

Hi Chris,

I just used seismograph. The degree of = interesting against latest designs might be marginal but historical. One of the = articles is what got me interested back in the 60’s.

Randy

Subject: Re:Filter input From: "Randall Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 09:09:24 -0600 Expanding on Barry's question, How critical are the resistance values in an active low pass filter? There is a simplified design page here http://www.beis.de/Elektronik/Filter/Act3PoleLP.html If values are 249.11k, 233.86k, and 69.201k for a 1 Hz 3 pole filter what would be acceptable rounding and tolerances? Also in the notes is how to cut gain in half for this particular design with a voltage divider. Might help you Barry. Randy

Expanding on Barry’s question, How = critical are the resistance values in an active low pass filter? There is a = simplified design page here http://www.= beis.de/Elektronik/Filter/Act3PoleLP.html If values are 249.11k, 233.86k, and 69.201k for a 1 Hz 3 = pole filter what would be acceptable rounding and tolerances? =

Also in the notes is how to cut gain in half for this particular design with a voltage divider. Might help you = Barry.

Randy

Subject: RE: Speaker Like Sensor ? From: "Keith Payea" kpayea@.............. Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:43:44 -0800 I just saw an ad for this product the other day: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-377 It's sold as a way to turn surfaces into speakers. It has one of Geoff's requirements in that it has no cone. It's still an 8 ohm device. There's no spec on voice coil travel distance, and it will surely have the problem Chris mentions regarding small gaps which cause problems with arcing motion. Just another gadget to tinker with.. Keith From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of ChrisAtUpw@....... Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:15 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Speaker Like Sensor ? In a message dated 10/03/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: Hello instrument folks, Is it possible to get a speaker company to build the mechanism like a speaker without a cone that would be like 500 to 10K OHMS or more instead of the typical 8 ohms ? I think it may be the best of all sensors for a velocity type anything geophone ? Comments ? Hi Geoff, If you wanted 10,000 off, maybe. Speakers mostly use ferrite magnets which are weak and temperature sensitive. The coils are designed with tiny clearances to suit an in/out motion and don't work too well with coils moving in the arc of a circle. You can get small speakers with 1000 ohm coils. You definitely DON'T want coils much above 500 Ohms, or the resistance noise will be more than the background signal. Resistor noise is broad band. Using quad NdFeB magnets on mild steel backing plates and flat rectangular coils is the easiest construction for amateurs. See http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html for a coil + magnet drawing. Regards, Chris Chapman

I just saw an ad for this product the other = day:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=3D300-377

It’s sold as a way to turn surfaces into = speakers. It has one of Geoff’s requirements in that it has no cone. =

It’s still an 8 ohm device. There’s no = spec on voice coil travel distance, and it will surely have the problem Chris = mentions regarding small gaps which cause problems with arcing = motion.

Just another gadget to tinker = with….

&nbs= p; Keith

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:15 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: Speaker Like Sensor ?

In a message dated 10/03/2010, gmvoeth@........... = writes:

Hello instrument folks,

Is it possible to get a speaker company to build the mechanism like a = speaker without a cone that would be like 500 to 10K OHMS or more instead of the typical 8 ohms ?

I think it may be the best of all sensors for a velocity type anything = geophone ?

Comments ?

Hi Geoff,

If you wanted 10,000 off, = maybe.

Speakers mostly use ferrite magnets = which are weak and temperature sensitive. The coils are designed with tiny = clearances to suit an in/out motion and don't work too well with coils moving in = the arc of a circle. You can get small speakers with 1000 ohm = coils.

You definitely DON'T want coils = much above 500 Ohms, or the resistance noise will be more than the background = signal. Resistor noise is broad band.

Using quad NdFeB magnets on mild = steel backing plates and flat rectangular coils is the easiest construction = for amateurs. See http://j= clahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html for a coil + magnet drawing.

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Popular Science Seismograph plans (1965) From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:23:09 EST =20 In a message dated 10/03/2010, kevans@............ writes: Does anyone have an opinion on the Pop Sci seismograph plans from 1965?= =20 Could it be modernized and be useful today? =20 _http://www.popsci.com/archive-viewer?id=3DWiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=3D135&query=3De= arthquak e+detector_=20 (http://www.popsci.com/archive-viewer?id=3DWiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=3D135&query=3De= arthquake+detector)=20 =20 =20 Regards, =20 =20 Beno=EEt Evans Hi Beno=EEt, =20 The short answer is not without a complete redesign. This kit was=20 designed before semiconductor amplifiers became readily available, or per= sonal=20 computers and digital recording were invented. To view the background=20 microseisms, you need a gain of ~x1,000, but the lever gives only about= x4. The=20 suspension needs to be changed to either a plane on a ball or to crossed= =20 rollers. Point in a dimple and knife blade types are NOT satisfactory. NO= =20 damping is provided. While you can use heavily varnished wood for the frame, 3" x 1" x 1/8= "=20 section Aluminum U Channel with 1/8" thick corner plates are easy to=20 fabricate. Use SS bolts from a boat/marine supplier to prevent corrosion.= The=20 frame needs to be very rigid. Quad NdFeB magnet blocks give very good=20 performance with a damping blade or a sensor coil. See drawings at=20 _http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html_=20 (http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html)=20 The period of a pendulum T =3D 2xPixSQRT(L / gxSinA)=20 Pi =3D 3.14159, g =3D 9.81 m/s/s, L is in m (0.56m for 1.5 sec),=20 suspension angle A is about 1/3 degree. Have a look at=20 _http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/2008%20lehman/lehman_prototype.jpg_= =20 (http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/2008%20lehman/lehman_prototype.jpg)= This has a 3" x 3/4" section Al bar frame. I use a SS=20 scalpel blade rolling on a 1/2" SS ball bearing on the upright and a 1 kg= =20 brass mass (non magnetic). DON'T mount the ball on the end of the arm. We= have=20 'come a very long way' in seismometer design since 1965. =20 Are you looking for a seismometer design? =20 Regards, =20 Chris Chapman <= FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>

In a message dated 10/03/2010, kevans@............ writes:

Does=20 anyone have an opinion on the Pop Sci seismograph plans from 1965? Could= it be=20 modernized and be useful today?=20
http://www.popsci.com/archive-viewer?id=3DWiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg= =3D135&query=3Dearthquake+detector

Regards,

Beno=EEt Evans

Hi Beno=EEt,

The short answer is not without a complete=20 redesign. This kit was designed before semiconductor amplifiers became rea= dily=20 available, or personal computers and digital recording were invented. To= view=20 the background microseisms, you need a gain of ~x1,000, but the lever give= s only=20 about x4. The suspension needs to be changed to either a plane on a= ball or=20 to crossed rollers. Point in a dimple and knife blade types are NOT= =20 satisfactory. NO damping is provided.

While you can use heavily varnished wood for= the=20 frame, 3" x 1" x 1/8" section Aluminum U Channel with 1/8" thick corner pl= ates=20 are easy to fabricate. Use SS bolts from a boat/marine supplier to prevent= =20 corrosion. The frame needs to be very rigid. Quad NdFeB magnet blocks give= very=20 good performance with a damping blade or a sensor coil. See drawings= at = http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html

The period of a pendulum T =3D 2xPixSQRT(L /= gxSinA)=20

Pi =3D 3.14159, g =3D 9.81 m/s/s, L is in m= (0.56m for=20 1.5 sec), suspension angle A is about 1/3 degree.

Have a look at http://jclahr.com= /science/psn/chapman/2008%20lehman/lehman_prototype.jpg This=20 has a 3" x 3/4" section Al bar frame. I use a SS scalpel blade rollin= g on a=20 1/2" SS ball bearing on the upright and a 1 kg brass mass (non magnet= ic).=20 DON'T mount the ball on the end of the arm. We have 'come a very long way'= in=20 seismometer design since 1965.

Are you looking for a seismometer design?

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: RE: Speaker Like Sensor ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:22:52 -0800 Geoff, I also recommend Chris' design, it is very good and easy to build. All = you need is a drill press. The rare earth magnets are readily available and = low cost. See http://www.kjmagnetics.com/neomaginfo.asp . Forget the speaker concept. It would be difficult to support the coil in the very narrow = space between the coil and magnet air gap without the coil touching the = magnet's edges. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 =A0 650-326-0655 =A0 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com=A0=A0 Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com=A0 sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer=20 =A0 -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of Geoffrey Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:46 PM To: PSN-LIST Subject: Speaker Like Sensor ? Hello instrument folks, Is it possible to get a speaker company to build the mechanism like a speaker without a cone that would be like 500 to 10K OHMS or more instead of the typical 8 ohms ? I think it may be the best of all sensors for a velocity type anything geophone ?? Comments ? It seems to me if you are going to make the coil a part of the mechanism you need that special delicate speaker wire that is braided with cloth=20 so that the springy nature of the wire will not be there to affect your results? geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Speaker Like Sensor ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:28:21 -0700 This is kind of interesting simply because I never heard of such a thing before. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Payea" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:43 AM Subject: RE: Speaker Like Sensor ? >I just saw an ad for this product the other day: > > > > http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-377 > > > > It's sold as a way to turn surfaces into speakers. It has one of Geoff's > requirements in that it has no cone. > > > > It's still an 8 ohm device. There's no spec on voice coil travel distance, > and it will surely have the problem Chris mentions regarding small gaps > which cause problems with arcing motion. > > > > Just another gadget to tinker with.. > > > > Keith > > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of ChrisAtUpw@....... > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:15 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Re: Speaker Like Sensor ? > > > > In a message dated 10/03/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: > > Hello instrument folks, > > Is it possible to get a speaker company to build the mechanism like a > speaker without a cone that would be like 500 to 10K OHMS or more instead of > the typical 8 ohms ? > > I think it may be the best of all sensors for a velocity type anything > geophone ? > > Comments ? > > Hi Geoff, > > > > If you wanted 10,000 off, maybe. > > > > Speakers mostly use ferrite magnets which are weak and temperature > sensitive. The coils are designed with tiny clearances to suit an in/out > motion and don't work too well with coils moving in the arc of a circle. You > can get small speakers with 1000 ohm coils. > > > > You definitely DON'T want coils much above 500 Ohms, or the resistance > noise will be more than the background signal. Resistor noise is broad band. > > > > > Using quad NdFeB magnets on mild steel backing plates and flat > rectangular coils is the easiest construction for amateurs. See > http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html for a coil + magnet > drawing. > > > > Regards, > > > > Chris Chapman > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Speaker Like Sensor ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:31:28 -0700 I concur, he most probably has the best I have seen, I think two horseshoe magnets with a coil in the center might be equally as good but not sure since I have no way of testing these things. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Lindgren" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:22 AM Subject: RE: Speaker Like Sensor ? Geoff, I also recommend Chris' design, it is very good and easy to build. All you need is a drill press. The rare earth magnets are readily available and low cost. See http://www.kjmagnetics.com/neomaginfo.asp . Forget the speaker concept. It would be difficult to support the coil in the very narrow space between the coil and magnet air gap without the coil touching the magnet's edges. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Geoffrey Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:46 PM To: PSN-LIST Subject: Speaker Like Sensor ? Hello instrument folks, Is it possible to get a speaker company to build the mechanism like a speaker without a cone that would be like 500 to 10K OHMS or more instead of the typical 8 ohms ? I think it may be the best of all sensors for a velocity type anything geophone ?? Comments ? It seems to me if you are going to make the coil a part of the mechanism you need that special delicate speaker wire that is braided with cloth so that the springy nature of the wire will not be there to affect your results? geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Popular Science Seismograph plans (1965) From: "K.-Benoit Evans" kevans@............ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:31:21 -0500 Hi Chris, I'm a complete novice in this field, but I would like to build a decent = seismograph that could detect local and strong distant tremors. I've = looked around on the net, but have not seen something I was sure I could = build AND that would work well. Do you have any suggestions? Regards, Beno=EEt Evans On 2010-03-10, at 12:23, ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 10/03/2010, kevans@............ writes: > Does anyone have an opinion on the Pop Sci seismograph plans from = 1965? Could it be modernized and be useful today? > = http://www.popsci.com/archive-viewer?id=3DWiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=3D135&query=3Dea= rthquake+detector > Regards, > Beno=EEt Evans > Hi Beno=EEt, > =20 > The short answer is not without a complete redesign. This kit was = designed before semiconductor amplifiers became readily available, or = personal computers and digital recording were invented. To view the = background microseisms, you need a gain of ~x1,000, but the lever gives = only about x4. The suspension needs to be changed to either a plane on a = ball or to crossed rollers. Point in a dimple and knife blade types are = NOT satisfactory. NO damping is provided. > While you can use heavily varnished wood for the frame, 3" x 1" x = 1/8" section Aluminum U Channel with 1/8" thick corner plates are easy = to fabricate. Use SS bolts from a boat/marine supplier to prevent = corrosion. The frame needs to be very rigid. Quad NdFeB magnet blocks = give very good performance with a damping blade or a sensor coil. See = drawings at http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html > The period of a pendulum T =3D 2xPixSQRT(L / gxSinA) > Pi =3D 3.14159, g =3D 9.81 m/s/s, L is in m (0.56m for 1.5 sec), = suspension angle A is about 1/3 degree. > Have a look at = http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/2008%20lehman/lehman_prototype.jpg = This has a 3" x 3/4" section Al bar frame. I use a SS scalpel blade = rolling on a 1/2" SS ball bearing on the upright and a 1 kg brass mass = (non magnetic). DON'T mount the ball on the end of the arm. We have = 'come a very long way' in seismometer design since 1965. > =20 > Are you looking for a seismometer design? > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Chris Chapman Hi = Chris,

I'm a complete novice in this field, but I = would like to build a decent seismograph that could detect local and = strong distant tremors. I've looked around on the net, but have not seen = something I was sure I could build AND that would work = well.

Do you have any = suggestions?

Regards,

Be= no=EEt Evans

On 2010-03-10, at = 12:23, ChrisAtUpw@....... = wrote:

In a message dated 10/03/2010, kevans@............ = writes:

Does=20 anyone have an opinion on the Pop Sci seismograph plans from 1965? = Could it be=20 modernized and be useful today?=20
http://www.popsci.com/archive-viewer?id= =3DWiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=3D135&query=3Dearthquake+detector

Regards,

Beno=EEt Evans

Hi Beno=EEt,

    The short answer is not without a complete=20= redesign. This kit was designed before semiconductor amplifiers became = readily=20 available, or personal computers and digital recording were invented. To = view=20 the background microseisms, you need a gain of ~x1,000, but the lever = gives only=20 about x4. The suspension needs to be changed to either a plane on a = ball or=20 to crossed rollers. Point in a dimple and knife blade types are NOT=20= satisfactory. NO damping is provided.

    While you can use heavily varnished wood = for the=20 frame, 3" x 1" x 1/8" section Aluminum U Channel with 1/8" thick corner = plates=20 are easy to fabricate. Use SS bolts from a boat/marine supplier to = prevent=20 corrosion. The frame needs to be very rigid. Quad NdFeB magnet blocks = give very=20 good performance with a damping blade or a sensor coil. See = drawings at http://jc= lahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html

    The period of a pendulum T =3D 2xPixSQRT(L = / gxSinA)=20

    Pi =3D 3.14159, g =3D 9.81 m/s/s, L is in m = (0.56m for=20 1.5 sec), suspension angle A is about 1/3 degree.

    Have a look at http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/2008%20lehman/lehman_prototy= pe.jpg This=20 has a 3" x 3/4" section Al bar frame. I use a SS scalpel blade = rolling on a=20 1/2" SS ball bearing on the upright and a 1 kg brass mass (non = magnetic).=20 DON'T mount the ball on the end of the arm. We have 'come a very long = way' in=20 seismometer design since 1965.



    Are you looking for a seismometer = design?

    Regards,

    Chris Chapman

= Subject: Re: Popular Science Seismograph plans (1965) From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:51:05 -0700 Can you tell me if the vertical design had the magnet/coil correctly oriented because to me it looks like the magnetic lines of force are not cutting the coil at right angles to the motion. It seems to me that if you used Chris's style sensor you might get better results all round. It nice and simple and only needs the sensor looked at closer along with magnetic instead of fluid damping. I like this vertical design but I think Id need a two second version which would be longer in height. How does one keep the mass from any horizontal motion ? Possibly three tethers in the horizontal plane located at the mass 120deg spread apart. Do such springs stretch with time and need adjustment ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "FRANK COOPER" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: Re: Popular Science Seismograph plans (1965) Hi Benoit and all, I constructed that very same seismograph in 1969 and believe that I did detect earthquakes with it. I just didn't recognize the earthquake wave forms that we are all so familiar with now. There was no PSN in those days and I was on my own. I believe that it could be made into a workable seismograph (sensor) even though made of wood. My 14 year old son, shown in one of the pictures, is 52 years old now. See my web page (url below) for pictures. Click on "MY ANALOG SEISMOGRAPH IN 1969" (JUST BELOW THE PICTURE OF THE Shackleford-Gunderson seismograph sensor near the bottom of the page). SEE MY WEB PAGE AT www.seequake.com Frank Cooper, Friendswood, Texas, PSN and ATN member. --- On Wed, 3/10/10, K.-Benoit Evans wrote: > From: K.-Benoit Evans > Subject: Re: Popular Science Seismograph plans (1965) > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 6:58 AM > Does anyone have an > opinion on the Pop Sci seismograph plans from 1965? Could it > be modernized and be useful today? > http://www.popsci.com/archive-viewer?id=WiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=135&query=earthquake+detector > > > Regards, > Beno�t Evans > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Speaker Like Sensor ? From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:02:53 -0800 (PST) I agree with Gary. I used STM' s design for the vertical with a 8" Radio Sh= ack woofer speaker. I opened up the gap in the magnet to provide more space= and spent an awful lot of time with duck tape removing all the loose piece= s.=20 Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Wed, 3/10/10, Gary Lindgren wrote: From: Gary Lindgren Subject: RE: Speaker Like Sensor ? To: psn-l@.............. Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 10:22 AM Geoff, I also recommend Chris' design, it is very good and easy to build. All you need is a drill press. The rare earth magnets are readily available and low cost. See http://www.kjmagnetics.com/neomaginfo.asp . Forget the speaker concept. It would be difficult to support the coil in the very narrow space between the coil and magnet air gap without the coil touching the magnet's edges. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 =A0 650-326-0655 =A0 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com=A0=A0 Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com=A0 sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home=A0 =A0 Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer=20 =A0 -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Geoffrey Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:46 PM To: PSN-LIST Subject: Speaker Like Sensor ? Hello instrument folks, Is it possible to get a speaker company to build the mechanism like a speaker without a cone that would be like 500 to 10K OHMS or more instead of the typical 8 ohms ? I think it may be the best of all sensors for a velocity type anything geophone ?? Comments ? It seems to me if you are going to make the coil a part of the mechanism you need that special delicate speaker wire that is braided with cloth=20 so that the springy nature of the wire will not be there to affect your results? geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

I agree with Gary. I used STM' s design for t= he vertical with a 8" Radio Shack woofer speaker. I opened up the gap in th= e magnet to provide more space and spent an awful lot of time with duck tap= e removing all the loose pieces.

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicva= ult.com

--- On Wed, 3/10/10, Gary Lindgren <gel@thec= onnection.com> wrote:

From: Gary= Lindgren <gel@.................>
Subject: RE: Speaker Like Sensor= ?
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 10:22 AM=

Geoff,
I also recommend Chris' design, = it is very good and easy to build. All you
need is a drill press. The ra= re earth magnets are readily available and low
cost. See http://www.kjmagnetics.com= /neomaginfo.asp . Forget the speaker
concept. It would be difficult = to support the coil in the very narrow space
between the coil and magnet= air gap without the coil touching the magnet's
edges.
Gary

Gary Lindgren
585 Lincoln Ave
Palo Alto CA 94301
&nb= sp;
650-326-0655

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com = ; Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading
cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details = for New
Vertical Seismometer

-----Original= Message-----
From: psn-l-request@webtron= ics.com [mailto:psn-l-request@webtr= onics.com] On
Behalf Of Geoffrey
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:= 46 PM
To: PSN-LIST
Subject: Speaker Like Sensor ?

Hello instru= ment folks,

Is it possible to get a speaker company to
build the = mechanism like a speaker
without a cone that would be like
500 to 10K= OHMS or more instead of
the typical 8 ohms ?

I think it may be t= he best of all sensors
for a velocity type anything geophone ??

C= omments ?

It seems to me if you are going to
make the coil a part= of the mechanism
you need that special delicate speaker
wire that is= braided with cloth
so that the springy nature of the wire
will not = be there to affect your results?

geoff

______________________= ____________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing = List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the = body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.= com/maillist.html for more information.

____________________= ______________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailin= g List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first = line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for m= ore information.

Subject: More then 2000 files From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:17:32 +0000 Hi all, The activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull volcano. So far I have recored more then 600 earthquakes or so. The activity continues and doesn't seems to be stopping. When I write this there are 2078 files in the folder for Mars 2010. Most of the earthquakes that I have recored are microquakes. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: More then 2000 files From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:46:27 -0600 Jon, You live on the North Atlantic Ridge splitting Iceland. How do separate its normal magma activity from that of a nearby volcano's magma activity, if there is a difference? To me, it would be like living next to a subway tunnel and trying to hear people walking above on ground level? Just wondering how you do it? Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: J�n Fr�mann To: PSN-Postlist Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:17 PM Subject: More then 2000 files Hi all, The activity continues in Eyjafjallaj�kull volcano. So far I have recored more then 600 earthquakes or so. The activity continues and doesn't seems to be stopping. When I write this there are 2078 files in the folder for Mars 2010. Most of the earthquakes that I have recored are microquakes. Regards, -- J�n Fr�mann J�nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Jon,

You live on the North Atlantic Ridge splitting Iceland. =

How do separate its normal magma activity from that of a nearby = volcano's=20 magma activity, if there is a difference? To me, it would be like = living=20 next to a subway tunnel and trying to hear people walking above on = ground=20 level? Just wondering how you do it?

Regards,

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 J=F3n = Fr=EDmann

To: PSN-Postlist

Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 = 9:17=20 PM

Subject: More then 2000 = files

Hi all,

The activity continues in = Eyjafjallaj=F6kull=20 volcano. So far I have
recored more then 600 earthquakes or so. The = activity continues and
doesn't seems to be stopping.

When I = write=20 this there are 2078 files in the folder for Mars 2010. Most
of the=20 earthquakes that I have recored are microquakes.

Regards,
-- =
J=F3n=20 Fr=EDmann=20 = J=F3nsson

________________________________________________________= __

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: More then 2000 files From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:57:06 +0000 Hi Jerry, Tectonic and high frequancy earthquakes in volcanoes are not that diffrent. But a volcanic tremor is a low frequancy events with a long tail. I have only recored once such event and that was in a volcano named Gr=EDmsjall, that was few weeks ago. That is how I can tell the signals apart. But I also use IMO data, and the location is usally a good clue on what type of activity this is. But that might not always be the case. The swarm continues, and the Hekla station plot is quite intresting. As it is full with earthquakes. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On mi=F0, 2010-03-10 at 21:46 -0600, GPayton wrote: > Jon, > =20 > You live on the North Atlantic Ridge splitting Iceland. =20 > =20 > How do separate its normal magma activity from that of a nearby > volcano's magma activity, if there is a difference? To me, it would > be like living next to a subway tunnel and trying to hear people > walking above on ground level? Just wondering how you do it? > =20 > Regards, > Jerry > =20 > =20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann=20 > To: PSN-Postlist=20 > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:17 PM > Subject: More then 2000 files > =20 > =20 > Hi all, > =20 > The activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull volcano. So far I > have > recored more then 600 earthquakes or so. The activity > continues and > doesn't seems to be stopping. > =20 > When I write this there are 2078 files in the folder for Mars > 2010. Most > of the earthquakes that I have recored are microquakes. > =20 > Regards, > --=20 > J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson > =20 > __________________________________________________________ > =20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > =20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: More then 2000 files From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:18:54 -0600 Jon, Is this the volcano that has the electric generating plant near its summit? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: More then 2000 files From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:33:12 +0000 Hi Tomas, No, that is the north Iceland. There isn't any power plant close to this volcano. But there are farms nearby and towns. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On fim, 2010-03-11 at 06:18 -0600, Thomas Dick wrote: > Jon, > Is this the volcano that has the electric generating plant near its summi= t? > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Attention southern Californian PSNers From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:26:14 -0800 A friend of mine sent me a copy of the Engineering & Science Magazine published by Cal Tech that had an article about upgrading the Southern California Seismic Network. This might be of interest to us for three reasons- I. Someone in PSA might be involved with this upgrade and could tell us a little about it, it sounds interesting. 2. What will happen to the equipment that is replaced, maybe PSN could help in distributing any surplus equipment to amateur seismologists like us. 3. I assume we all will benefit from the data from the enhanced network. You can read more about it and who is doing it at- http://eands.caltech.edu/articles/LXXIII1/2010_Winter_SeismoStimulus.html George A friend of mine sent me a copy of the Engineering & Science Magazine published by Cal Tech that had an article about upgrading the Southern California Seismic Network. This might be of interest to us for three reasons-

I. Someone in PSA might be involved with this upgrade and could tell us a little about it, it sounds interesting.

2. What will happen to the equipment that is replaced, maybe PSN could help in distributing any surplus equipment to amateur seismologists like us.

3. I assume we all will benefit from the data from the enhanced network.

You can read more about it and who is doing it at-
http://eands.caltech.edu/articles/LXXIII1/2010_Winter_SeismoStimulus.html

George Subject: Re: Attention southern Californian PSNers From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:57:58 -0700 Hi George - This is an ongoing project that is affecting all the networks that are = tied into the IRIS system. When the digitizer is upgraded, they also = rename the two horizontal channels as follows: The broadband North = channel such as BHN are being renamed BH1, and the broadband East = channel such as BHE are being renamed BH2. The long period horizontal = channels are also being renamed from LHN to LH1 and LHE to LH2. Right = now when you download data through IRIS, you can find channels named = both ways. The vertical channel remains unnamed at BHZ or LHZ I don't know about the old SCSN digitizers, but the old digitizers for = the IU system are being collected in Albuquerque. They are a large box = which is every bit of about 2 feet to a side and are heavy. Although = they are 24 bit digitizers, their output is in SEED and SAC format, and = from what I have heard, they are not designed to display live data like = you can with Larry's boards. There are a few sites that do this such as = the Columbia University, Lamont-Doherty Cooperative Seismic Network = (LSCN) in New York, and the University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ, but that = is not the norm. Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ On Mar 11, 2010, at 11:26 AM, George Bush wrote: > A friend of mine sent me a copy of the Engineering & Science Magazine = published by Cal Tech that had an article about upgrading the Southern = California Seismic Network. This might be of interest to us for three = reasons- >=20 > I. Someone in PSA might be involved with this upgrade and could tell = us a little about it, it sounds interesting. > 2. What will happen to the equipment that is replaced, maybe PSN could = help in distributing any surplus equipment to amateur seismologists like = us. > 3. I assume we all will benefit from the data from the enhanced = network. >=20 > You can read more about it and who is doing it at- > = http://eands.caltech.edu/articles/LXXIII1/2010_Winter_SeismoStimulus.html > George >=20

A friend of mine sent me a copy of the Engineering & Science = Magazine published by Cal Tech that had an article about upgrading the Southern California Seismic Network. This might be of interest to us for three reasons-

I. Someone in PSA might be involved with this upgrade and could tell us a little about it, it sounds interesting.

2. What will happen to the equipment that is replaced, maybe = PSN could help in distributing any surplus equipment to amateur = seismologists like us.

3. I assume we all will benefit from the data from the enhanced network.

You can read more about it and who is doing it at-
= http://eands.caltech.edu/articles/LXXIII1/2010_Winter_SeismoStimulus.html<= br>
George

= Subject: Re: Attention southern Californian PSNers From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:44:32 EST In a message dated 11/03/2010, icarus@......... writes: This is an ongoing project that is affecting all the networks that are tied into the IRIS system. When the digitizer is upgraded, they also rename the two horizontal channels Hi Bob, I don't think that we would be very interested in old 24 bit digitizers, but I note that 138 stations are effected. We might well be interested in secondhand sensors if any are being scrapped. Do you have any details, please? Regards, Chris Chapman

In a message dated 11/03/2010, icarus@......... writes:

This is=20 an ongoing project that is affecting all the networks that are tied into= the=20 IRIS system. When the digitizer is upgraded, they also rename the= two=20 horizontal channels

Hi Bob,

I don't think that we would be very intereste= d in=20 old 24 bit digitizers, but I note that 138 stations are effected. We might= well=20 be interested in secondhand sensors if any are being scrapped.

Do you have any details, please?

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: More then 2000 files From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:46:16 -0700 When you say Volcanic Tremor by that do you mean Harmonic Tremor ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "J�n Fr�mann" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 8:57 PM Subject: Re: More then 2000 files Hi Jerry, Tectonic and high frequancy earthquakes in volcanoes are not that diffrent. But a volcanic tremor is a low frequancy events with a long tail. I have only recored once such event and that was in a volcano named Gr�msjall, that was few weeks ago. That is how I can tell the signals apart. But I also use IMO data, and the location is usally a good clue on what type of activity this is. But that might not always be the case. The swarm continues, and the Hekla station plot is quite intresting. As it is full with earthquakes. Regards, J�n Fr�mann. On mi�, 2010-03-10 at 21:46 -0600, GPayton wrote: > Jon, > > You live on the North Atlantic Ridge splitting Iceland. > > How do separate its normal magma activity from that of a nearby > volcano's magma activity, if there is a difference? To me, it would > be like living next to a subway tunnel and trying to hear people > walking above on ground level? Just wondering how you do it? > > Regards, > Jerry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: J�n Fr�mann > To: PSN-Postlist > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:17 PM > Subject: More then 2000 files > > > Hi all, > > The activity continues in Eyjafjallaj�kull volcano. So far I > have > recored more then 600 earthquakes or so. The activity > continues and > doesn't seems to be stopping. > > When I write this there are 2078 files in the folder for Mars > 2010. Most > of the earthquakes that I have recored are microquakes. > > Regards, > -- > J�n Fr�mann J�nsson > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attention southern Californian PSNers From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:26:32 -0700 Hi Chris - I'll look into it and see if any sensors are = available.........Bob On Mar 11, 2010, at 2:44 PM, ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 11/03/2010, icarus@......... writes: > This is an ongoing project that is affecting all the networks that are = tied into the IRIS system. When the digitizer is upgraded, they also = rename the two horizontal channels > Hi Bob, > =20 > I don't think that we would be very interested in old 24 bit = digitizers, but I note that 138 stations are effected. We might well be = interested in secondhand sensors if any are being scrapped. > Do you have any details, please? > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Chris Chapman

Hi Chris - I'll look into it and see if any sensors are available.........Bob

On Mar 11, 2010, at 2:44 PM, ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote:

In a message dated 11/03/2010, icarus@......... writes:

This is an ongoing project that is affecting all the networks that are tied into the IRIS system. When the digitizer is upgraded, they also rename the two horizontal channels

Hi Bob,

    I don't think that we would be very interested in old 24 bit digitizers, but I note that 138 stations are effected. We might well be interested in secondhand sensors if any are being scrapped.

    Do you have any details, please?

    Regards,

    Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Attention southern Californian PSNers From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:36:12 -0700 Hi Chris - I sent an email to ASL, to check on the availability of seismometers. = Following is their reply. "...The digital upgrades don't include replacement of seismometers, = unfortunately for the PSN. However, it's possible that we will do some = seismometer replacements in the future. We'll contact you if and when = some old seismometers become available. Thanks for your interest!...." Considering the pace of government, this could easily be years, so it = does not look like anything is available at this time or in the = foreseeable future. I will keep an eye open for this and if it = transpires, I will let the PSN group know. As I said earlier, the last = time this was done was about 10 years ago and involved the KS-36000 a = cold war borescope receiver that weighed about 200 lbs without the case. = If you do a google search on the KS-36000, you will see a few old PSN = emails about the instrument. Cheers, Bob On Mar 11, 2010, at 2:44 PM, ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 11/03/2010, icarus@......... writes: > This is an ongoing project that is affecting all the networks that are = tied into the IRIS system. When the digitizer is upgraded, they also = rename the two horizontal channels > Hi Bob, > =20 > I don't think that we would be very interested in old 24 bit = digitizers, but I note that 138 stations are effected. We might well be = interested in secondhand sensors if any are being scrapped. > Do you have any details, please? > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Chris Chapman

Considering the pace of = government, this could easily be years, so it does not look like = anything is available at this time or in the foreseeable future. I = will keep an eye open for this and if it transpires, I will let the PSN = group know. As I said earlier, the last time this was done was about 10 = years ago and involved the KS-36000 a cold war borescope receiver that = weighed about 200 lbs without the case. If you do a google search = on the KS-36000, you will see a few old PSN emails about the = instrument.

Cheers,

Bob<= /div>

On Mar 11, 2010, at = 2:44 PM, ChrisAtUpw@....... = wrote:

In a message dated 11/03/2010, icarus@......... writes:

This is=20 an ongoing project that is affecting all the networks that are tied = into the=20 IRIS system. When the digitizer is upgraded, they also rename = the two=20 horizontal channels

Hi Bob,

    I don't think that we would be very = interested in=20 old 24 bit digitizers, but I note that 138 stations are effected. We = might well=20 be interested in secondhand sensors if any are being scrapped.

    Do you have any details, please?

    Regards,

    Chris Chapman

= Subject: Re: More then 2000 files From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 01:52:11 +0000 Hi, There is a diffrence between a harmonic tremor and volcanic tremor. Here is a good explanation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_tremor This earthquake here happened yesterday (12th March 2010), and possible is a volcanic earthquake. http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1003/100312.144744.hkbn.p= sn Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On fim, 2010-03-11 at 15:46 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > When you say Volcanic Tremor > by that do you mean Harmonic Tremor ?? >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "J=F3n Fr=EDmann" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 8:57 PM > Subject: Re: More then 2000 files >=20 >=20 > Hi Jerry, >=20 > Tectonic and high frequancy earthquakes in volcanoes are not that > diffrent. But a volcanic tremor is a low frequancy events with a long > tail. I have only recored once such event and that was in a volcano > named Gr=EDmsjall, that was few weeks ago. That is how I can tell the > signals apart. >=20 > But I also use IMO data, and the location is usally a good clue on what > type of activity this is. But that might not always be the case. >=20 > The swarm continues, and the Hekla station plot is quite intresting. As > it is full with earthquakes. >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On mi=F0, 2010-03-10 at 21:46 -0600, GPayton wrote: > > Jon, > > > > You live on the North Atlantic Ridge splitting Iceland. > > > > How do separate its normal magma activity from that of a nearby > > volcano's magma activity, if there is a difference? To me, it would > > be like living next to a subway tunnel and trying to hear people > > walking above on ground level? Just wondering how you do it? > > > > Regards, > > Jerry > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > To: PSN-Postlist > > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:17 PM > > Subject: More then 2000 files > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > The activity continues in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull volcano. So far I > > have > > recored more then 600 earthquakes or so. The activity > > continues and > > doesn't seems to be stopping. > > > > When I write this there are 2078 files in the folder for Mars > > 2010. Most > > of the earthquakes that I have recored are microquakes. > > > > Regards, > > --=20 > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > > information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: pP reflected wave From: RSparks rsparks@.......... Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 09:13:53 -0800 Hello All, I finally think I have clearly recorded a reflected wave front. It happened this morning from the Honshu Quake where the P and pP wave fronts seem to be clearly recorded. My recording can be found at http://www.seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1003/100313.125644.ebgzx.psn. If I recorded the pP wave previously, I certainly did not recognize it. If I read the reference at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seismic_wave correctly, the pP wave can only be recorded at surface arrival/reflection points so station location is critical to visibility. Just the luck of the draw. Roger __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Vertical BB derived from STM-8 From: Matt Zieleman matthew.zieleman@......... Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:36:25 -0800 I've been doing some conceptual design work on a vertical broadband sensor, and I have a few questions. By reading past archives of the PSN-L I noticed that Sean-Thomas Morrissey was a contributor to this list, and there was some discussion about his STM-8 vertical leaf-spring design. 1.) My first question is about deriving the transfer function. I tried to derive it myself, but from first principles, but what I got isn't what is shown in Sean-Thomas' work. I think the problem is my understanding of what the input and output of the transfer function are. Here's my logic for the transfer function: You can't=A0measure the position of the Earth's surface from a stationary reference frame, and you can't measure the position of the mass from a stationary reference frame. Only the relative position between the two can be measured. My first postulate is that the force acting on the mass only depends on the relative position of the mass and Earth's surface. Combining this postulate with Newton's F=3D ma, I get: s^2 * M * X(s) =3D F(s) * (Y(s) - X(s)) Where M is the mass, X(s) is the position of the mass in a stationary frame, Y(s) is the position of the ground in a stationary frame. The only thing we can directly measure is Y(s) - X(s), so I believe the transfer function is from Y(s) to Y(s) - X(s)/ Now X(s) =3D Y(s) - (Y(s) - X(s)), substituting in the left hand side of my above expression: s^2 * M * (Y(s) - (Y(s) - X(s))) =3D F(s) * (Y(s) - X(s)) s^s * M * Y(s) =3D (F(s) + s^2 * M)(Y(s) - X(s)) s^2 * M (Y(s) - X(s)) =3D ----------------------- Y(s) F(s) + s^2 * M Then F(s) would be k + s*eta + K_p + s * K_d + K_i /s where K_p, K_i, K_d are the coefficients of a PID controller, k is the mechanical spring constant, and eta is the mechanical damping, if any. When I plug this all in I get a somewhat simpler expression.that what Sean-Thomas had. So I went back on including that fact that the integrator pole is not zero, and the back EMF generated in the feedback coil, and wound up with something way more complicated that I am not going to type out here. Does anybody have any hints? 2.) My second question is about the hinge. Is foil suitable or should I look at something like a knife edge or ball bearing hinge? I'm leaning strongly towards foil. How much of an impact does the flexibility of the foil really have on the period? Given that the spring constant of the main spring is probably much much larger. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Vertical BB derived from STM-8 From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:35:07 -0800 Matt, I suggest you check out the Inyo FBV (Force Balance Vertical) = seismometer designed by Dave Nelson and Brett Nordgren. The seismometer is very sensitive and picks up M5's half way around the world. Karl Cunningham, Barry Lotz, and I have built one of these units. Check out http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/ This site chronicles the design process I went through to build this amazing instrument. Brett's loop7 spreadsheet guides you through the design details. You enter the bandwidth you want, go through a few steps and out pops capacitor and resistor values you need to fill the circuit board. Let me know if you = any questions. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 =A0 650-326-0655 =A0 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com=A0=A0 Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com=A0 sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer=20 =A0 =20 -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of Matt Zieleman Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:36 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Vertical BB derived from STM-8 I've been doing some conceptual design work on a vertical broadband sensor, and I have a few questions. By reading past archives of the PSN-L I noticed that Sean-Thomas Morrissey was a contributor to this list, and there was some discussion about his STM-8 vertical leaf-spring design. 1.) My first question is about deriving the transfer function. I tried to derive it myself, but from first principles, but what I got isn't what is shown in Sean-Thomas' work. I think the problem is my understanding of what the input and output of the transfer function are. Here's my logic for the transfer function: You can't=A0measure the position of the Earth's surface from a stationary reference frame, and you can't measure the position of the mass from a stationary reference frame. Only the relative position between the two can be measured. My first postulate is that the force acting on the mass only depends on the relative position of the mass and Earth's surface. Combining this postulate with Newton's F=3D ma, I get: s^2 * M * X(s) =3D F(s) * (Y(s) - X(s)) Where M is the mass, X(s) is the position of the mass in a stationary frame, Y(s) is the position of the ground in a stationary frame. The only thing we can directly measure is Y(s) - X(s), so I believe the transfer function is from Y(s) to Y(s) - X(s)/ Now X(s) =3D Y(s) - (Y(s) - X(s)), substituting in the left hand side of my above expression: s^2 * M * (Y(s) - (Y(s) - X(s))) =3D F(s) * (Y(s) - X(s)) s^s * M * Y(s) =3D (F(s) + s^2 * M)(Y(s) - X(s)) s^2 * M (Y(s) - X(s)) =3D ----------------------- Y(s) F(s) + s^2 * M Then F(s) would be k + s*eta + K_p + s * K_d + K_i /s where K_p, K_i, K_d are the coefficients of a PID controller, k is the mechanical spring constant, and eta is the mechanical damping, if any. When I plug this all in I get a somewhat simpler expression.that what Sean-Thomas had. So I went back on including that fact that the integrator pole is not zero, and the back EMF generated in the feedback coil, and wound up with something way more complicated that I am not going to type out here. Does anybody have any hints? 2.) My second question is about the hinge. Is foil suitable or should I look at something like a knife edge or ball bearing hinge? I'm leaning strongly towards foil. How much of an impact does the flexibility of the foil really have on the period? Given that the spring constant of the main spring is probably much much larger. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Vertical BB derived from STM-8 From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 14:24:54 -0800 (PST) Hi Matt I am not able to get into the math but regarding the second question, I use= d 0.002"=A0 SS cross foil flexures about 0.5" wide. They were hard to tight= en because of their delicate nature.=A0 The consensus is that the sensor's = free period has little to do with the sensors response in a force/balance s= ystem (within reason). STM has a Mathcad program for evaluating the electri= cal variables, but Brett as redone it in Excel. I've built two of them. The= y work well but aren't as environmentally stable as the Inyo FBV but I thin= k they cost me less :) . They are more sensitive to the elements because of= their size limiting the ability to protect for pressure variations. You ca= n protect for thermal and provide electrical shielding though. I built one = as per STM and one ~12" long. I have pictures on my website.=A0 The leaf sp= ring does tend to drift a little.=A0 It may have to do with the stress leve= l. Brett has a lot of discussions about this and the STM- 8. The other drawback I see to the STM-8 is it has a fairly high gain so you are limite= d to a high gain output only unless you redesign the electronics a little. = I think this could be fairly easily modified. All in all I am happy with th= eir performance and don't regret constructing them. - - - I really don't re= gret constructing any of my sensors I guess :) =A0=20 Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Sat, 3/13/10, Gary Lindgren wrote: From: Gary Lindgren Subject: RE: Vertical BB derived from STM-8 To: psn-l@.............. Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 11:35 AM Matt, I suggest you check out the Inyo FBV (Force Balance Vertical) seismometer designed by Dave Nelson and Brett Nordgren. The seismometer is very sensitive and picks up M5's half way around the world. Karl Cunningham, Barry Lotz, and I have built one of these units. Check out http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/ This site chronicles the design process I went through to build this amazing instrument. Brett's loop7 spreadsheet guides you through the design details. You enter the bandwidth you want, go through a few steps and out pops capacitor and resistor values you need to fill the circuit board. Let me know if you any questions. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 =A0 650-326-0655 =A0 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com=A0=A0 Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com=A0 sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home=A0 =A0 Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer=20 =A0 =A0=20 -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Matt Zieleman Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:36 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Vertical BB derived from STM-8 I've been doing some conceptual design work on a vertical broadband sensor, and I have a few questions. By reading past archives of the PSN-L I noticed that Sean-Thomas Morrissey was a contributor to this list, and there was some discussion about his STM-8 vertical leaf-spring design. 1.) My first question is about deriving the transfer function. I tried to derive it myself, but from first principles, but what I got isn't what is shown in Sean-Thomas' work. I think the problem is my understanding of what the input and output of the transfer function are. Here's my logic for the transfer function: You can't=A0measure the position of the Earth's surface from a stationary reference frame, and you can't measure the position of the mass from a stationary reference frame. Only the relative position between the two can be measured. My first postulate is that the force acting on the mass only depends on the relative position of the mass and Earth's surface. Combining this postulate with Newton's F=3D ma, I get: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 s^2 * M * X(s) =3D F(s) * (Y(s) - X(s)) Where M is the mass, X(s) is the position of the mass in a stationary frame, Y(s) is the position of the ground in a stationary frame. The only thing we can directly measure is Y(s) - X(s), so I believe the transfer function is from Y(s) to Y(s) - X(s)/ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Now X(s) =3D Y(s) - (Y(s) - X(s)), substituting in the = left hand side of my above expression: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 s^2 * M * (Y(s) - (Y(s) - X(s))) =3D F(s) * (Y(s) - X(s= )) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 s^s * M * Y(s) =3D (F(s) + s^2 * M)(Y(s) - X(s)) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= s^2 * M =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (Y(s) - X(s)) =3D ----------------------- Y(s) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 F(s) + s^2 = * M Then F(s) would be k + s*eta + K_p=A0 + s * K_d + K_i /s where K_p, K_i, K_d are the coefficients of a PID controller, k is the mechanical spring constant, and eta is the mechanical damping, if any. When I plug this all in I get a somewhat simpler expression.that what Sean-Thomas had. So I went back on including that fact that the integrator pole is not zero, and the back EMF generated in the feedback coil, and wound up with something way more complicated that I am not going to type out here. Does anybody have any hints? 2.) My second question is about the hinge. Is foil suitable or should I look at something like a knife edge or ball bearing hinge? I'm leaning strongly towards foil. How much of an impact does the flexibility of the foil really have on the period? Given that the spring constant of the main spring is probably much much larger. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

Hi Matt
I am not able to get into the math= but regarding the second question, I used 0.002" SS cross foil flexu= res about 0.5" wide. They were hard to tighten because of their delicate na= ture. The consensus is that the sensor's free period has little to do= with the sensors response in a force/balance system (within reason). STM h= as a Mathcad program for evaluating the electrical variables, but Brett as = redone it in Excel. I've built two of them. They work well but aren't as en= vironmentally stable as the Inyo FBV but I think they cost me less :) . The= y are more sensitive to the elements because of their size limiting the abi= lity to protect for pressure variations. You can protect for thermal and pr= ovide electrical shielding though. I built one as per STM and one ~12" long= .. I have pictures on my website. The leaf spring does tend to drift a little. It may have to do with the stress level. Brett has a lot of = discussions about this and the STM- 8. The other drawback I see to the STM-= 8 is it has a fairly high gain so you are limited to a high gain output onl= y unless you redesign the electronics a little. I think this could be fairl= y easily modified. All in all I am happy with their performance and don't r= egret constructing them. - - - I really don't regret constructing any of my= sensors I guess :)

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.co= m

--- On Sat, 3/13/10, Gary Lindgren <gel@th= econnection.com> wrote:

From: Ga= ry Lindgren <gel@.................>
Subject: RE: Vertical BB deriv= ed from STM-8
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 11:35 AM

Matt,
I suggest you chec= k out the Inyo FBV (Force Balance Vertical) seismometer
designed by Dave= Nelson and Brett Nordgren. The seismometer is very
sensitive and picks = up M5's half way around the world. Karl Cunningham,
Barry Lotz, and I ha= ve built one of these units. Check out
http://sites.google.com/site/s= eismicsensorinfo/ This site chronicles the
design process I went thr= ough to build this amazing instrument. Brett's
loop7 spreadsheet guides = you through the design details. You enter the
bandwidth you want, go thr= ough a few steps and out pops capacitor and
resistor values you need to = fill the circuit board. Let me know if you any
questions.
Gary

Gary Lindgren
585 Lincoln Ave
Palo Alto CA 94301

650-326-0655

www.blue-eagle-technologies.c= om Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading
cymonsplace.blogspo= t.com
sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home De= sign Details for New
Vertical Seismometer

<= br>
-----Original Message-----
From: p= sn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-= l-request@..............] On
Behalf Of Matt Zieleman
Sent: Saturd= ay, March 13, 2010 10:36 AM
To: psn-l@..............<= br>Subject: Vertical BB derived from STM-8

I've been doing some conc= eptual design work on a vertical broadband
sensor, and I have a few ques= tions. By reading past archives of the
PSN-L I noticed that Sean-Thomas Morrissey= was a contributor to this
list, and there was some discussion about his= STM-8 vertical
leaf-spring design.

1.) My first question is abou= t deriving the transfer function. I tried
to derive it myself, but from = first principles, but what I got isn't
what is shown in Sean-Thomas' wor= k. I think the problem is my
understanding of what the input and output = of the transfer function
are. Here's my logic for the transfer function:=

You can't measure the position of the Earth's surface from astationary reference frame, and you can't measure the position of the
= mass from a stationary reference frame. Only the relative position
betwe= en the two can be measured. My first postulate is that the force
acting = on the mass only depends on the relative position of the mass
and Earth'= s surface. Combining this postulate with Newton's F=3D ma, I
get:

s^2 * M * X(s) =3D F(s= ) * (Y(s) - X(s))

Where M is the mass, X(s) is the position of the m= ass in a stationary
frame, Y(s) is the position of the ground in a stati= onary frame. The
only thing we can directly measure is Y(s) - X(s), so I= believe the
transfer function is from Y(s) to Y(s) - X(s)/

= ; Now X(s) =3D Y(s) - (Y(s) - X(s)), substituti= ng in the left
hand side of my above expression:

&n= bsp; s^2 * M * (Y(s) - (Y(s) - X(s))) =3D F(s) * (Y(s) - X(s)= )

s^s * M * Y(s) =3D (F(s) + s^2 = * M)(Y(s) - X(s))

&= nbsp; = s^2 * M
(Y(s) - X(s)) =3D ---= -------------------- Y(s)
&nbs= p; F(s) + s^2 = * M

Then F(s) would be k + s*eta + K_p + s * K_d + K_i /s wher= e K_p, K_i,
K_d are the coefficients of a PID controller, k is the mecha= nical
spring constant, and eta is the mechanical damping, if any.
When I plug this all in I get a somewhat simpler expression.that what
S= ean-Thomas had. So I went back on including that fact that the
integrato= r pole is not zero, and the back EMF generated in the
feedback coil, and= wound up with something way more complicated that I
am not going to typ= e out here. Does anybody have any hints?

2.) My second question is a= bout the hinge. Is foil suitable or should
I look at something like a kn= ife edge or ball bearing hinge? I'm
leaning strongly towards foil. How m= uch of an impact does the
flexibility of the foil really have on the per= iod? Given that the
spring constant of the main spring is probably much much larger.
____________________________________________= ______________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To= leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEISMIC= NET.COM with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe=
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
__________________________________________________________

Public S= eismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body o= f the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more inf= ormation.

Subject: Re: Vertical BB derived from STM-8 From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:42:07 EST In a message dated 13/03/2010, matthew.zieleman@......... writes: I've been doing some conceptual design work on a vertical broadband sensor, and I have a few questions. By reading past archives of the PSN-L I noticed that Sean-Thomas Morrissey was a contributor to this list, and there was some discussion about his STM-8 vertical leaf-spring design. Hi Matthew, Go to _http://psn.quake.net/infoequip.html_ (http://psn.quake.net/infoequip.html) and download Sean's file on the STM-8. There are also files on the St Louis Website _http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html_ (http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html) Also look at Erhard Wielandt's downloads on seismometers. And _http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/~erhard/downloads/textfiles/Seismometry/BroadbandDesign.doc_ (http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/~erhard/downloads/textfiles/Seismometry/BroadbandDesign.doc) When I plug this all in I get a somewhat simpler expression.that what Sean-Thomas had. So I went back on including that fact that the integrator pole is not zero, and the back EMF generated in the feedback coil, and wound up with something way more complicated that I am not going to type out here. Does anybody have any hints? 2.) My second question is about the hinge. Is foil suitable or should I look at something like a knife edge or ball bearing hinge? I'm leaning strongly towards foil. How much of an impact does the flexibility of the foil really have on the period? Given that the spring constant of the main spring is probably much much larger. Foil is perfectly satisfactory, but avoid brass. The spring in the foil has very little effect on the performance provided it is flat and has a single flex. Avoid knife edge bearings like the plague !! The main problem in constructing a vertical seismometer is how to compensate for the large temperature coefficient of the spring. You are limited to periods of less than 6 seconds in practice with steel springs. Otherwise the mechanism simply collapse as the instrument temperature changes. You can use Elinvar of Ni-SpanC low coefficient alloys, but obtaining / forming / heat treating these are likely to give problems. The second alternative is to use three component force feedback to stabilise the operation. The third option is to use a powerful coil + magnet sensor and put this into a negative input impedance amplifier. This prevents the arm from moving and you measure the feedback voltage required to compensate. You get a voltage output proportional to frequency. See _http://www.lennartz-electronic.de/PDF_documents/Seismometers.pdf_ (http://www.lennartz-electronic.de/PDF_documents/Seismometers.pdf) The fourth option is to make a vertical with ~2 second period and use a low frequency boost amplifier to compensate for the sensitivity decrease at greater periods. You can get a x10 period increase this way with a coil + magnet sensor, but you need low noise electronics. It may be easier to use a position sensor followed by an integrator, but much more electronics is required. This can be analogue, or digital as in the Volksmeter on psn and the CMG-EDU from Guralp. Atmospheric noise tends to dominate the other input noises of unshielded vertical sensors by a factor of up to x100. Current commercial sensor technologies mostly seal small sensors inside metal or glass containers. It is also possible to use a float to provide compensation for a 'bare' sensor. I hope that this is of some help. Regards, Chris Chapman

In a message dated 13/03/2010, matthew.zieleman@......... writes:

I've=20 been doing some conceptual design work on a vertical broadband
sensor= , and=20 I have a few questions. By reading past archives of the
PSN-L I notic= ed=20 that Sean-Thomas Morrissey was a contributor to this
list, and there= was=20 some discussion about his STM-8 vertical
leaf-spring=20 design.

Hi Matthew,

Go to http://psn.quake.net/infoequip.html and=20 download Sean's file on the STM-8. There are also files on the St Louis We= bsite=20 http://w= ww.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html

Also look at Erhard Wielandt's downloads on= =20 seismometers. And

http://www= ..geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/~erhard/downloads/textfiles/Seismometry/Broadban= dDesign.doc

When I=20 plug this all in I get a somewhat simpler expression.that what
Sean-T= homas=20 had. So I went back on including that fact that the
integrator pole= is not=20 zero, and the back EMF generated in the
feedback coil, and wound up= with=20 something way more complicated that I
am not going to type out here.= Does=20 anybody have any hints?

2.) My second question is about the hinge= .. Is=20 foil suitable or should
I look at something like a knife edge or ball= =20 bearing hinge? I'm
leaning strongly towards foil. How much of an impa= ct=20 does the
flexibility of the foil really have on the period? Given tha= t=20 the
spring constant of the main spring is probably much much=20 larger.

Foil is perfectly satisfactory, but avoid bra= ss.=20 The spring in the foil has very little effect on the performance provided= it is=20 flat and has a single flex.

Avoid knife edge bearings like the plague !!<= /DIV>

The main problem in constructing a vertical= =20 seismometer is how to compensate for the large temperature coefficient of= the=20 spring. You are limited to periods of less than 6 seconds in practice with= steel=20 springs. Otherwise the mechanism simply collapse as the instrument=20 temperature changes. You can use Elinvar of Ni-SpanC low coefficient alloy= s, but=20 obtaining / forming / heat treating these are likely to give problems.

The second alternative is to use three compon= ent=20 force feedback to stabilise the operation.

The third option is to use a powerful coil += magnet=20 sensor and put this into a negative input impedance amplifier. This preven= ts the=20 arm from moving and you measure the feedback voltage required to=20 compensate. You get a voltage output proportional to frequency.

See http://www.lennartz-electronic.d= e/PDF_documents/Seismometers.pdf=20

The fourth option is to make a vertical with= ~2=20 second period and use a low frequency boost amplifier to compensate for th= e=20 sensitivity decrease at greater periods. You can get a x10 period increase= this=20 way with a coil + magnet sensor, but you need low noise electronics. It ma= y be=20 easier to use a position sensor followed by an integrator, but much more= =20 electronics is required. This can be analogue, or digital as in the Volksm= eter=20 on psn and the CMG-EDU from Guralp.

Atmospheric noise tends to dominate the = other=20 input noises of unshielded vertical sensors by a factor of up to x100= ..=20 Current commercial sensor technologies mostly seal small sensors inside me= tal or=20 glass containers. It is also possible to use a float to provide=20 compensation for a 'bare' sensor.

I hope that this is of some help.

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Vertical BB derived from STM-8 From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:16:35 -0500 Matt: A complete answer to your excellent questions would need a couple of dozen pages, so I will start with the easy one. Flexures make the best hinges. In a feedback vertical, the boom essentially remains stationary so they actually flex very little. Their stiffness does raise the natural frequency before feedback very slightly, but since that can be adjusted over a very wide range, say a half second period out to infinity, by slight adjustments to the length of the astatic support spring, the effect of any slight stiffness of the flexures is totally negligible. The Inyo Force Balance Vertical design http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm was somewhat influenced by Sean-Thomas' STM-8, and by the STS-1. It uses a clamped-end leaf spring which has some advantages over the flexible connections used in the STM-8. You can think of the mechanics of such a design as having proof mass which tends to remain fixed in inertial space with the ground and instrument frame moving under it. The mass is supported by an astatic spring, designed so that its supporting force changes very little with ground motion, designed to largely offset the gravity force acting on the mass. Then a force transducer, driven by the feedback circuit acts on the mass in such a way that it is forced to move exactly with the earth and the instrument's frame. In effect you are observing the acceleration required to make the mass move with the earth and then in effect integrating that to give a velocity signal, which provides a very accurate measure of the instantaneous velocity of the earth vibrations. In drawing the feedback block diagram, the input is usually considered to be ground acceleration which is summed with the (negative) feedback acceleration force from the force transducer. Any small difference between them results in a microscopic motion of the mass which is observed by a sensitive displacement sensor. Its output is amplified, frequency shaped and applied to the P, I and D feedback branches, which in turn drive the force transducer. There are many good references to these designs. Some of the best have been written by Erhard Wielandt who was instrumental in perfecting the force-balance seismometer concept. http://www.iris.edu/stations/seisWorkshop04/PDF/Wielandt-Design3.doc The STS-2 manual has a good block diagram that encourages some study http://bnordgren.org/seismo/sts-2_manual_page_18.jpg In your derivation I didn't quite follow the action of the feedback loop, though I may have missed it. The equations I (and Sean-Thomas) used to compute the instrument response are outlined in http://bnordgren.org/seismo/loop4.pdf and there is some useful information in http://bnordgren.org/seismo/feedback.pdf and http://bnordgren.org/seismo/feedback_in_seismic_sensors3.pdf which is based on the STM-8 parameters. In general, at low frequencies (where the loop gain is high) the instrument response is very nearly 1/B where B is the combined transfer function of the feedback branches. The instrument's high frequency rolloff occurs at the point where the loop gain has fallen to 1, about 37 Hz in the STM-8, and from there falls, matching the falling velocity response of the spring mass before feedback. We have so far been able to ignore the back EMF, though a thorough analysis might be in order at this point. In general the coil motions are slow and extremely small, though that clearly doesn't prove anything, but only suggests that it might not be a big issue. There is much much more in the way of information on this design, but these should be a small start. When you are ready for more please let me know. Regards, Brett At 01:36 PM 3/13/2010, you wrote: >I've been doing some conceptual design work on a vertical broadband >sensor, and I have a few questions. By reading past archives of the >PSN-L I noticed that Sean-Thomas Morrissey was a contributor to this >list, and there was some discussion about his STM-8 vertical >leaf-spring design. > >1.) My first question is about deriving the transfer function. I tried >to derive it myself, but from first principles, but what I got isn't >what is shown in Sean-Thomas' work. I think the problem is my >understanding of what the input and output of the transfer function >are. Here's my logic for the transfer function: > >You can't measure the position of the Earth's surface from a >stationary reference frame, and you can't measure the position of the >mass from a stationary reference frame. Only the relative position >between the two can be measured. My first postulate is that the force >acting on the mass only depends on the relative position of the mass >and Earth's surface. Combining this postulate with Newton's F= ma, I >get: > > s^2 * M * X(s) = F(s) * (Y(s) - X(s)) > >Where M is the mass, X(s) is the position of the mass in a stationary >frame, Y(s) is the position of the ground in a stationary frame. The >only thing we can directly measure is Y(s) - X(s), so I believe the >transfer function is from Y(s) to Y(s) - X(s)/ > > Now X(s) = Y(s) - (Y(s) - X(s)), substituting in the left >hand side of my above expression: > > s^2 * M * (Y(s) - (Y(s) - X(s))) = F(s) * (Y(s) - X(s)) > > s^s * M * Y(s) = (F(s) + s^2 * M)(Y(s) - X(s)) > > s^2 * M > (Y(s) - X(s)) = ----------------------- Y(s) > F(s) + s^2 * M > >Then F(s) would be k + s*eta + K_p + s * K_d + K_i /s where K_p, K_i, >K_d are the coefficients of a PID controller, k is the mechanical >spring constant, and eta is the mechanical damping, if any. > >When I plug this all in I get a somewhat simpler expression.that what >Sean-Thomas had. So I went back on including that fact that the >integrator pole is not zero, and the back EMF generated in the >feedback coil, and wound up with something way more complicated that I >am not going to type out here. Does anybody have any hints? > >2.) My second question is about the hinge. Is foil suitable or should >I look at something like a knife edge or ball bearing hinge? I'm >leaning strongly towards foil. How much of an impact does the >flexibility of the foil really have on the period? Given that the >spring constant of the main spring is probably much much larger. >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Vertical BB derived from STM-8 From: "Dave Nelson" davefnelson@....... Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 02:38:12 -0000 To Join the discussion=20 The STM design was cutting edge at the time but is outdated. =20 The Inyo design does not require a low temperature coefficient spring . = The design of the feedback loop is such that the integrator path will = compensate for spring temperature coefficient over at least 40C and = produce a long period corner of 50 seconds. The only effect of = temperature is to produce an offset in the instrument output = proportional to the temperature rate of change. That offset is very = slowly changing compared the the long period corner so can be easily = filtered either in the instrument output electronics or in the filtering = in Winsdr. I use a high pass of 1 pole and 500 seconds to eliminate the offset . = All force balance sensors have that effect. My Trillium is much worse = than the Inyo but when well insulated from the environment is is of no = consequence. Attempting any sort of long period vertical without feedback is an = invitation to poor performance ,frustration and probably failure. The = nice thing about the feedback method is it cures a multitude of ills = without excessive complexity or frustrating setup. They just work.=20 Regarding flexures : I use 2 mil stainless with ~ .01 spacing 1/2 = inch wide. The critical design factor is that the spring keeps the = pivot flexure in tension.=20 I have used negative impedance terminations on a Geophone with good = results but at the expense of much increased noise at the long = periods. There is definitely a limit on that technique as can be clearly = seen in the Lennartz noise curves. =20 Regards , Dave Nelson=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:42 AM To: psn-l@................. Subject: Re: Vertical BB derived from STM-8 In a message dated 13/03/2010, matthew.zieleman@......... writes: I've been doing some conceptual design work on a vertical broadband sensor, and I have a few questions. By reading past archives of the PSN-L I noticed that Sean-Thomas Morrissey was a contributor to this list, and there was some discussion about his STM-8 vertical leaf-spring design. Hi Matthew, Go to http://psn.quake.net/infoequip.html and download Sean's file = on the STM-8. There are also files on the St Louis Website = http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html Also look at Erhard Wielandt's downloads on seismometers. And = http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/~erhard/downloads/textfiles/Seismomet= ry/BroadbandDesign.doc When I plug this all in I get a somewhat simpler expression.that what Sean-Thomas had. So I went back on including that fact that the integrator pole is not zero, and the back EMF generated in the feedback coil, and wound up with something way more complicated that I am not going to type out here. Does anybody have any hints? 2.) My second question is about the hinge. Is foil suitable or should I look at something like a knife edge or ball bearing hinge? I'm leaning strongly towards foil. How much of an impact does the flexibility of the foil really have on the period? Given that the spring constant of the main spring is probably much much larger. Foil is perfectly satisfactory, but avoid brass. The spring in the = foil has very little effect on the performance provided it is flat and = has a single flex. Avoid knife edge bearings like the plague !! The main problem in constructing a vertical seismometer is how to = compensate for the large temperature coefficient of the spring. You are = limited to periods of less than 6 seconds in practice with steel = springs. Otherwise the mechanism simply collapse as the instrument = temperature changes. You can use Elinvar of Ni-SpanC low coefficient = alloys, but obtaining / forming / heat treating these are likely to give = problems.=20 The second alternative is to use three component force feedback to = stabilise the operation.=20 The third option is to use a powerful coil + magnet sensor and put = this into a negative input impedance amplifier. This prevents the arm = from moving and you measure the feedback voltage required to compensate. = You get a voltage output proportional to frequency.=20 See http://www.lennartz-electronic.de/PDF_documents/Seismometers.pdf = The fourth option is to make a vertical with ~2 second period and = use a low frequency boost amplifier to compensate for the sensitivity = decrease at greater periods. You can get a x10 period increase this way = with a coil + magnet sensor, but you need low noise electronics. It may = be easier to use a position sensor followed by an integrator, but much = more electronics is required. This can be analogue, or digital as in the = Volksmeter on psn and the CMG-EDU from Guralp. Atmospheric noise tends to dominate the other input noises of = unshielded vertical sensors by a factor of up to x100. Current = commercial sensor technologies mostly seal small sensors inside metal or = glass containers. It is also possible to use a float to provide = compensation for a 'bare' sensor. I hope that this is of some help. Regards, Chris Chapman

To Join the discussion

The STM design was cutting edge at the time but is=20 outdated.

The Inyo design does not require a low temperature coefficient = spring . The=20 design of the feedback loop is such that the integrator path = will=20 compensate for spring temperature coefficient over at least = 40C and=20 produce a long period corner of 50 seconds. The only effect of = temperature is to=20 produce an offset in the instrument output proportional to the = temperature=20 rate of change. That offset is very slowly = changing=20 compared the the long period corner so can be easily filtered = either=20 in the instrument output electronics or in the filtering in = Winsdr.

I use a high pass of 1 pole and 500 seconds to eliminate the offset = .. All=20 force balance sensors have that effect. My Trillium is much worse = than=20 the Inyo but when well insulated from the environment is is = of no=20 consequence.

Attempting any sort of long period vertical without = feedback is=20 an invitation to poor performance ,frustration and probably failure. = The=20 nice thing about the feedback method is it cures a multitude of = ills=20 without excessive complexity or frustrating setup. They just work. =

Regarding flexures : I use 2 mil stainless = with ~=20 ..01 spacing 1/2 inch wide. The critical design factor is that the = spring=20 keeps the pivot flexure in tension.

I have used negative impedance terminations on a Geophone = with good=20 results but at the expense of much increased noise at = the long=20 periods. There is definitely a limit on that technique as can be clearly = seen in=20 the Lennartz noise curves.

Regards , Dave Nelson

From: ChrisAtUpw@.......

Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:42 AM

To: psn-l@..............

Subject: Re: Vertical BB derived from = STM-8

In a message dated 13/03/2010, matthew.zieleman@.........= =20 writes:

I've=20 been doing some conceptual design work on a vertical = broadband
sensor, and=20 I have a few questions. By reading past archives of the
PSN-L I = noticed=20 that Sean-Thomas Morrissey was a contributor to this
list, and = there was=20 some discussion about his STM-8 vertical
leaf-spring=20 design.

Hi Matthew,

Go to http://psn.quake.net/infoequ= ip.html and=20 download Sean's file on the STM-8. There are also files on the St Louis = Website=20 http://www.= eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html

Also look at Erhard Wielandt's downloads on = seismometers. And

http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/~erha= rd/downloads/textfiles/Seismometry/BroadbandDesign.doc

When I=20 plug this all in I get a somewhat simpler expression.that = what
Sean-Thomas=20 had. So I went back on including that fact that the
integrator pole = is not=20 zero, and the back EMF generated in the
feedback coil, and wound up = with=20 something way more complicated that I
am not going to type out = here. Does=20 anybody have any hints?

2.) My second question is about the = hinge. Is=20 foil suitable or should
I look at something like a knife edge or = ball=20 bearing hinge? I'm
leaning strongly towards foil. How much of an = impact=20 does the
flexibility of the foil really have on the period? Given = that=20 the
spring constant of the main spring is probably much much=20 larger.

Foil is perfectly satisfactory, but avoid = brass.=20 The spring in the foil has very little effect on the performance = provided it is=20 flat and has a single flex.

Avoid knife edge bearings like the plague = !!

The main problem in constructing a vertical = seismometer is how to compensate for the large temperature coefficient = of the=20 spring. You are limited to periods of less than 6 seconds in practice = with steel=20 springs. Otherwise the mechanism simply collapse as the instrument=20 temperature changes. You can use Elinvar of Ni-SpanC low coefficient = alloys, but=20 obtaining / forming / heat treating these are likely to give problems. =

The second alternative is to use three = component=20 force feedback to stabilise the operation.

The third option is to use a powerful coil = + magnet=20 sensor and put this into a negative input impedance amplifier. This = prevents the=20 arm from moving and you measure the feedback voltage required to=20 compensate. You get a voltage output proportional to frequency. =

See http://www.lennartz-electronic.de/PDF_documents/Seismometers.pdf=20

The fourth option is to make a vertical = with ~2=20 second period and use a low frequency boost amplifier to compensate for = the=20 sensitivity decrease at greater periods. You can get a x10 period = increase this=20 way with a coil + magnet sensor, but you need low noise electronics. It = may be=20 easier to use a position sensor followed by an integrator, but much more = electronics is required. This can be analogue, or digital as in the = Volksmeter=20 on psn and the CMG-EDU from Guralp.

Atmospheric noise tends to dominate = the other=20 input noises of unshielded vertical sensors by a factor of up to = x100.=20 Current commercial sensor technologies mostly seal small sensors inside = metal or=20 glass containers. It is also possible to use a float to provide=20 compensation for a 'bare' sensor.

I hope that this is of some help.

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: RE: Vertical BB derived from STM-8 From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 22:03:58 -0500 Gary, Thanks for passing along the link to your=20 site. Looks like you've got it running pretty nicely. This is probably a good time to provide the List=20 with a little history of the design and some=20 recognition of some of the other people who were=20 instrumental in its creation. First must be=20 Angel Rodriguez, who operates the Seismic=20 Observatory of Western Panama, OSOP, and who=20 originally saw the need for a high-quality, yet=20 simple instrument which was easy to repair in the=20 field and which could be manufactured in rural=20 Panama by local workers. He wanted it to be as=20 simple as possible, (but not more so), and it was=20 to be reasonably large to make it easy to build=20 and fix. If such an instrument could be=20 designed, it might be made available to the=20 seismological community in Cemtral and South=20 America as a simple but very useful instrument.=20 (He now manufactures it and has named it the Cais=E1n.) To get things started, Angel contacted several of=20 us who had shown an interest in such designs and=20 encouraged us to see what could be=20 accomplished. Dave Nelson first started thinking=20 about the design and early on visited Terry Brown=20 in Tennessee to discuss how such an instrument=20 might look. The Inyo Force-Balance Vertical and=20 Cais=E1n owe much of their mechanical design to=20 Terry's original concepts. Dave then took=20 Terry's ideas, refined them, and started=20 construction and circuit design. At around that=20 time I got involved, mostly helping with some of=20 the software tools required to analyze and create=20 the design, consulting on the circuit and=20 discussing troubleshooting approaches with Dave=20 when it wasn't working right (which at first was=20 discouragingly often). A number of other people,=20 including, in particular, Chris Chapman added=20 their ideas and suggestions to the effort. I just wanted to share the whole story. The Inyo=20 has turned out to work much better than we had=20 thought would be possible and it is clear so far=20 that local site noise will be the limiting factor=20 on what it can see. Under good conditions you=20 can sometimes see surface waves from magnitudes=20 in the high 4's, if they are oriented right. Many thanks to all who helped with the design,=20 and in particular to Gary, Karl and Barry, who=20 have been of enormous help in aiding our=20 understanding of what sort of support and=20 documentation will be most useful for those who follow. Regards, Brett At 02:35 PM 3/13/2010, Gary Lindgren wrote: >Matt, >I suggest you check out the Inyo FBV (Force Balance Vertical) seismometer >designed by Dave Nelson and Brett Nordgren. The seismometer is very >sensitive and picks up M5's half way around the world. Karl Cunningham, >Barry Lotz, and I have built one of these units. Check out >http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/ This site chronicles the >design process I went through to build this amazing instrument. Brett's >loop7 spreadsheet guides you through the design details. You enter the >bandwidth you want, go through a few steps and out pops capacitor and >resistor values you need to fill the circuit board. Let me know if you any >questions. >Gary > > > > > > >Gary Lindgren >585 Lincoln Ave >Palo Alto CA 94301 > >650-326-0655 > >www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading >cymonsplace.blogspot.com >sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New >Vertical Seismometer > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On >Behalf Of Matt Zieleman >Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:36 AM >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Vertical BB derived from STM-8 > >I've been doing some conceptual design work on a vertical broadband >sensor, and I have a few questions. By reading past archives of the >PSN-L I noticed that Sean-Thomas Morrissey was a contributor to this >list, and there was some discussion about his STM-8 vertical >leaf-spring design. > >1.) My first question is about deriving the transfer function. I tried >to derive it myself, but from first principles, but what I got isn't >what is shown in Sean-Thomas' work. I think the problem is my >understanding of what the input and output of the transfer function >are. Here's my logic for the transfer function: > >You can't measure the position of the Earth's surface from a >stationary reference frame, and you can't measure the position of the >mass from a stationary reference frame. Only the relative position >between the two can be measured. My first postulate is that the force >acting on the mass only depends on the relative position of the mass >and Earth's surface. Combining this postulate with Newton's F=3D ma, I >get: > > s^2 * M * X(s) =3D F(s) * (Y(s) - X(s)) > >Where M is the mass, X(s) is the position of the mass in a stationary >frame, Y(s) is the position of the ground in a stationary frame. The >only thing we can directly measure is Y(s) - X(s), so I believe the >transfer function is from Y(s) to Y(s) - X(s)/ > > Now X(s) =3D Y(s) - (Y(s) - X(s)), substituting in the left >hand side of my above expression: > > s^2 * M * (Y(s) - (Y(s) - X(s))) =3D F(s) * (Y(s) - X(s)) > > s^s * M * Y(s) =3D (F(s) + s^2 * M)(Y(s) - X(s)) > > s^2 * M > (Y(s) - X(s)) =3D ----------------------- Y(s) > F(s) + s^2 * M > >Then F(s) would be k + s*eta + K_p + s * K_d + K_i /s where K_p, K_i, >K_d are the coefficients of a PID controller, k is the mechanical >spring constant, and eta is the mechanical damping, if any. > >When I plug this all in I get a somewhat simpler expression.that what >Sean-Thomas had. So I went back on including that fact that the >integrator pole is not zero, and the back EMF generated in the >feedback coil, and wound up with something way more complicated that I >am not going to type out here. Does anybody have any hints? > >2.) My second question is about the hinge. Is foil suitable or should >I look at something like a knife edge or ball bearing hinge? I'm >leaning strongly towards foil. How much of an impact does the >flexibility of the foil really have on the period? Given that the >spring constant of the main spring is probably much much larger. >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Drawing Format From: "Rex Klopfenstein" rklopfen@......... Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 22:44:54 -0500 This is a question for Brett Nordgren. What is the format of your = drawing (.dwg) files? My AutoCAD 2004 will not open these files. Thanks in advance Rex Klopfenstein Bowling Green, OH

This is a question for Brett Nordgren. = What is the=20 format of your drawing (.dwg) files? My AutoCAD 2004 will not open these = files.

Thanks in advance

Rex Klopfenstein

Bowling Green, OH

Subject: Re: Drawing Format From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:15:01 -0500 Hi Rex, It was probably for a later version of AC. My program can save it in an earlier format that should work, and I have a much updated version of the drawings that will be better for you to use. I'll let you know when I get a copy uploaded. I would imagine sometime tomorrow. Should be no problem as I don't use any of the features unique to the later versions. Regards, Bettt At 10:44 PM 3/13/2010, you wrote: >This is a question for Brett Nordgren. What is the format of your >drawing (.dwg) files? My AutoCAD 2004 will not open these files. > >Thanks in advance >Rex Klopfenstein >Bowling Green, OH > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Inyo drawings From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 08:59:20 -0400 Rex, The latest drawing is now at http://bnordgren.org/seismo/FBV/FBVmech4c.zip Its in AutoCAD 2000 format, so you should not have any problems. At one time there was a 4d version, but this, for whatever reason is now the most recent. The drawing has 33 layers which may be turned on or off for display. For reference the layers ending in -DIM are dimensions for the various parts. The ones ending in -HDW are of the screws, etc associated with each part. As with all the Inyo FBV documentation, it would be a good idea to check with me before trying to use it to cut metal as there may well be a later version. This project is still evolving very slightly, particularly as more people get involved who are making suggestions and finding documentation errors. I never learned how to use Layer 0 properly, so if my drawing is strange in that regard, that's the reason. For people who don't have AutoCad, an alternative way to view and print, though not edit the drawing file is with the free Brava! dwg viewer, which can be downloaded from: http://www.infograph.com/products/dwgviewer/ That seems to work with all versions of dwg files. Good luck, Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Vertical BB Development From: Matt Zieleman matthew.zieleman@......... Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:55:17 -0700 Thanks everybody for all their comments. It should take me a while yet to parse all that information. The Inyo looks like it might fit inside a pressure cooker? That might help to isolate it from barometric pressure variation. ********** I=92ll try to expand on how I derived the transfer function: 1.) Neither the ground nor the mass is stationary from the perspective of an inertial frame. 2.) The only forces that can act on the mass are from the spring and from the feedback transducer. 3.) Both the spring force and the feedback transducer force depend only on the distance between the ground and mass (and derivative and integral of that distance). Those statements gave me this equation of motion for the mass: X(s) is the mass position from an inertial frame. Y(s) is the mass position from the intertial frame. F =3D ma (Newton=92s Law) F =3D F(s)[Y(s) =96 X(s)] (From 2,3) So: M * s ^ 2 * X(s) =3D F(s) [Y(s) =96 X(s)] Then it=92s just algebra to get the transfer function. Now F(s) =3D K_m + K_p + K_i / s + s * K_d Where K_m is the mechanical spring constant, K_p, K_i, and K_d are the constants of the PID controller. For example, K_p =3D Q*G/R_p where Q is the position sensor sensitivity in V/m, G is N/m, and R_p is the proportional feedback resistor. Likewise, K_d=3D G*Q*C, and K_i=3DQ*G/(T *R_i) where T is the integrator time constant. ********** My method for including the back EMF of the force transducer relies on the principle of superposition. Basically you put a voltage source in series with the force transducer whose voltage is proportional to velocity, where the constant of proportionality is the generator constant of the transducer. Then you calculate the current induced by that voltage by short circuiting the position sensor output and integrator outputs to ground. I will try to post a schematic to my website to better describe how this is done. I=92ve also got a MATLAB file I can post. The change with back EMF is basically negligible in amplitude. Negligible would be an understatement in fact. Cheers, Matt __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Vertical BB Development From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:38:41 -0400 Matt, A 12" I.D. pressure cooker would be ideal,=20 except....... its bottom will flex by very=20 large amounts (by seismo standards) in response=20 to air pressure changes, and you end up as bad or=20 worse as without the cover. What we and others=20 using sensitive instruments have discovered is=20 that you need to cut holes in its bottom for the=20 seismo feet and seal it down to something really=20 solid like a granite surface plate, or in one=20 installation, a tombstone blank. The seismo=20 feet sit directly on the granite and the cooking=20 pot can then flex all it wants without making the seismo rock and roll. At 05:55 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote: >Thanks everybody for all their comments. It should take me a while yet >to parse all that information. >The Inyo looks like it might fit inside a pressure cooker? That might >help to isolate it from barometric pressure variation. >********** >I=92ll try to expand on how I derived the transfer function: > >1.) Neither the ground nor the mass is stationary from the perspective >of an inertial frame. >2.) The only forces that can act on the mass are from the spring and >from the feedback transducer. And you try to significantly reduce variation of=20 the spring force by using an astatic geometry. >3.) Both the spring force and the feedback transducer force depend >only on the distance between the ground and mass (and derivative and >integral of that distance). Though the change of spring force is small enough=20 that it doesn't enter significantly into the=20 instrument response. The transducer force is=20 much larger and is a complex function (in both=20 senses) of any relative motion of the mass. It=20 is almost totally the transducer force that=20 balances the force on the mass arising from the ground acceleration. >Those statements gave me this equation of motion for the mass: >X(s) is the mass position from an inertial frame. >Y(s) is the mass position from the intertial frame. > F =3D ma (Newton=92s Law) > F =3D F(s)[Y(s) =AD X(s)] (From 2,3) >So: M * s ^ 2 * X(s) =3D F(s) [Y(s) =AD X(s)] > >Then it=92s just algebra to get the transfer function. > >Now F(s) =3D K_m + K_p + K_i / s + s * K_d > >Where K_m is the mechanical spring constant, K_p, K_i, and K_d are the >constants of the PID controller. For example, K_p =3D Q*G/R_p where Q is >the position sensor sensitivity in V/m, G is N/m, and R_p is the >proportional feedback resistor. Likewise, K_d=3D G*Q*C, and K_i=3DQ*G/(T >*R_i) where T is the integrator time constant. > >********** >My method for including the back EMF of the force transducer relies on >the principle of superposition. Basically you put a voltage source in >series with the force transducer whose voltage is proportional to >velocity, where the constant of proportionality is the generator >constant of the transducer. I agree. >Then you calculate the current induced by >that voltage by short circuiting the position sensor output and >integrator outputs to ground. I will try to post a schematic to my >website to better describe how this is done. I=92ve also got a MATLAB >file I can post. The change with back EMF is basically negligible in >amplitude. Negligible would be an understatement in fact. That's pretty much what we observe. Regards, Brett=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Vertical BB Development From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:08:18 -0400 Matt, I went through your calculations and now think I=20 understand why they differ from the MathCad results. At 05:55 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote: >Thanks everybody for all their comments. It should take me a while yet >to parse all that information. >The Inyo looks like it might fit inside a pressure cooker? That might >help to isolate it from barometric pressure variation. >********** >I=92ll try to expand on how I derived the transfer function: > >1.) Neither the ground nor the mass is stationary from the perspective >of an inertial frame. Correct. >2.) The only forces that can act on the mass are from the spring and >from the feedback transducer. And the force resisting the acceleration of the=20 mass as it is forced to follow ground motion. The=20 spring force (variation) is designed to be negligible. >3.) Both the spring force and the feedback transducer force depend >only on the distance between the ground and mass (and derivative and >integral of that distance). > >Those statements gave me this equation of motion for the mass: >X(s) is the mass position from an inertial frame. >Y(s) is the mass position from the intertial frame. One is ground position.......? > F =3D ma (Newton=92s Law) > F =3D F(s)[Y(s) =AD X(s)] (From 2,3) >So: M * s ^ 2 * X(s) =3D F(s) [Y(s) =AD X(s)] > >Then it=92s just algebra to get the transfer function. > >Now F(s) =3D K_m + K_p + K_i / s + s * K_d I think here you are deriving an expression for=20 the gain *around* the loop, the 'loop gain' ,=20 which is an important concept, but it is not the instrument response. What needs to be considered is that the=20 instrument's output is taken following Q, the=20 'forward' portion of the loop. To get the loop=20 gain you multiplied Q by G*(1/R_p + C +=20 1/(T*R_i)), the 'feedback' portion of the loop,=20 which for simplicity we can call B. So the loop=20 gain is just Q B. In the configuration I=20 described, if Q B >> 1, which is assured (at all=20 but the highest frequencies) by design, by making=20 Q large enough, the instrument response will=20 closely approximate 1/B. Interestingly, that=20 means that it doesn't depend on the spring=20 characteristics or on Q (so long as it is high=20 enough), but only on B -- which is the whole=20 point of using feedback. The 'feedback.pdf'=20 reference is a simple explanation of how that works. >Where K_m is the mechanical spring constant, K_p, K_i, and K_d are the >constants of the PID controller. For example, K_p =3D Q*G/R_p where Q is >the position sensor sensitivity in V/m, G is N/m, and R_p is the >proportional feedback resistor. Likewise, K_d=3D G*Q*C, and K_i=3DQ*G/(T >*R_i) where T is the integrator time constant. Regards, Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attention southern Californian PSNers From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:14:01 -0700 Hi Chris and Bob - I appreciate your interest in this subject. Bob, keep us informed on any further developments on ASL and possible surplus equipment. Thank you for your responses! George At 06:36 PM 3/12/2010, you wrote: >Hi Chris - > >I sent an email to ASL, to check on the availability of >seismometers. Following is their reply. > >"...The digital upgrades don't include replacement of seismometers, >unfortunately for the PSN. However, it's possible that we will do >some seismometer replacements in the future. We'll contact you >if and when some old seismometers become available. Thanks for >your interest!...." > >Considering the pace of government, this could easily be years, so >it does not look like anything is available at this time or in the >foreseeable future. I will keep an eye open for this and if it >transpires, I will let the PSN group know. As I said earlier, the >last time this was done was about 10 years ago and involved the >KS-36000 a cold war borescope receiver that weighed about 200 lbs >without the case. If you do a google search on the KS-36000, you >will see a few old PSN emails about the instrument. > >Cheers, > >Bob > > > >On Mar 11, 2010, at 2:44 PM, >ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > >>In a message dated 11/03/2010, >>icarus@......... writes: >>This is an ongoing project that is affecting all the networks that >>are tied into the IRIS system. When the digitizer is upgraded, >>they also rename the two horizontal channels >> >>Hi Bob, >> >> I don't think that we would be very interested in old 24 bit >> digitizers, but I note that 138 stations are effected. We might >> well be interested in secondhand sensors if any are being scrapped. >> Do you have any details, please? >> >> Regards, >> >> Chris Chapman George Bush Sea Ranch, CA, USA 38.73775N, 123.48882W Hi Chris and Bob -

I appreciate your interest in this subject. Bob, keep us informed on any further developments on ASL and possible surplus equipment.

Thank you for your responses!

George

At 06:36 PM 3/12/2010, you wrote:

Hi Chris -

I sent an email to ASL, to check on the availability of seismometers. Following is their reply.

"...The digital upgrades don't include replacement of seismometers, unfortunately for the PSN. However, it's possible that we will do some seismometer replacements in the future. We'll contact you if and when some old seismometers become available. Thanks for your interest!...."

Considering the pace of government, this could easily be years, so it does not look like anything is available at this time or in the foreseeable future. I will keep an eye open for this and if it transpires, I will let the PSN group know. As I said earlier, the last time this was done was about 10 years ago and involved the KS-36000 a cold war borescope receiver that weighed about 200 lbs without the case. If you do a google search on the KS-36000, you will see a few old PSN emails about the instrument.

Cheers,

Bob

On Mar 11, 2010, at 2:44 PM, ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote:

In a message dated 11/03/2010, icarus@......... writes:

This is an ongoing project that is affecting all the networks that are tied into the IRIS system. When the digitizer is upgraded, they also rename the two horizontal channels

Hi Bob,

    I don't think that we would be very interested in old 24 bit digitizers, but I note that 138 stations are effected. We might well be interested in secondhand sensors if any are being scrapped.
    Do you have any details, please?

    Regards,

    Chris Chapman

George Bush
Sea Ranch, CA, USA
38.73775N, 123.48882W Subject: Re: Attention southern Californian PSNers From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:26:40 -0500 And you just thought that was the LAST "Gold Rush" if any become available!! (smile) Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: George Bush To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:14 PM Subject: Re: Attention southern Californian PSNers Hi Chris and Bob - I appreciate your interest in this subject. Bob, keep us informed on any further developments on ASL and possible surplus equipment. Thank you for your responses! George At 06:36 PM 3/12/2010, you wrote: Hi Chris - I sent an email to ASL, to check on the availability of seismometers. Following is their reply. "...The digital upgrades don't include replacement of seismometers, unfortunately for the PSN. However, it's possible that we will do some seismometer replacements in the future. We'll contact you if and when some old seismometers become available. Thanks for your interest!...." Considering the pace of government, this could easily be years, so it does not look like anything is available at this time or in the foreseeable future. I will keep an eye open for this and if it transpires, I will let the PSN group know. As I said earlier, the last time this was done was about 10 years ago and involved the KS-36000 a cold war borescope receiver that weighed about 200 lbs without the case. If you do a google search on the KS-36000, you will see a few old PSN emails about the instrument. Cheers, Bob On Mar 11, 2010, at 2:44 PM, ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: In a message dated 11/03/2010, icarus@......... writes: This is an ongoing project that is affecting all the networks that are tied into the IRIS system. When the digitizer is upgraded, they also rename the two horizontal channels Hi Bob, I don't think that we would be very interested in old 24 bit digitizers, but I note that 138 stations are effected. We might well be interested in secondhand sensors if any are being scrapped. Do you have any details, please? Regards, Chris Chapman George Bush Sea Ranch, CA, USA 38.73775N, 123.48882W

And you just thought that was the LAST "Gold Rush" if any = become=20 available!! (smile)

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 George = Bush

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 = 1:14=20 PM

Subject: Re: Attention southern = Californian PSNers

Hi Chris and Bob -

I appreciate your interest in = this=20 subject. Bob, keep us informed on any further developments on ASL and = possible=20 surplus equipment.

Thank you for your=20 responses!

George

At 06:36 PM 3/12/2010, you = wrote:

Hi Chris -

I = sent an email=20 to ASL, to check on the availability of seismometers. = Following is=20 their reply.

"...The digital upgrades don't include = replacement of=20 seismometers, unfortunately for the PSN. However, it's = possible that=20 we will do some seismometer replacements in the future. We'll = contact=20 you if and when some old seismometers become available. = Thanks=20 for your interest!...."

Considering the pace of government, = this=20 could easily be years, so it does not look like anything is = available at=20 this time or in the foreseeable future. I will keep an eye = open for=20 this and if it transpires, I will let the PSN group know. As I said = earlier,=20 the last time this was done was about 10 years ago and involved the = KS-36000=20 a cold war borescope receiver that weighed about 200 lbs without the = case. If you do a google search on the KS-36000, you will see = a few=20 old PSN emails about the=20 instrument.

Cheers,

Bob

On Mar 11, = 2010, at=20 2:44 PM, ChrisAtUpw@.......=20 wrote:

In a = message dated=20 11/03/2010, icarus@.........=20 writes:

This is an ongoing project that is affecting all the = networks that=20 are tied into the IRIS system. When the digitizer is = upgraded,=20 they also rename the two horizontal channels

Hi = Bob,

    I don't think that we would = be very=20 interested in old 24 bit digitizers, but I note that 138 stations = are=20 effected. We might well be interested in secondhand sensors if any = are=20 being scrapped.
    Do you have any details,=20 please?

   =20 Regards,

    Chris=20 Chapman

George Bush
Sea Ranch, CA, USA
38.73775N, = 123.48882W=20

Subject: Re: Vertical BB Development From: Matt Zieleman matthew.zieleman@......... Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:43:53 -0700 Hi Brett I think we're both right. Draw a feedback loop with 1/s^2 in the forward path, and k/m + s*lambda/m in the feedback portion and you'll get the "Quadratic Polynomial/Spring Mass" expression you have in your derivation. (lambda is viscous damping). Then around that loop put the electrical feedback. By a few diagram manipulations you get that the electrical feedback is operating in parallel with the mechanical feedback. STM's spring constant is 4.9 N/m, but the electrical proportional feedback is ~ (380000 V/m)*(13 N/A)/(561000 V/A) =3D 8.8 N/m. So the mechanical portion is still significant. Matt On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Brett Nordgren w= rote: > Matt, > > I went through your calculations and now think I understand why they diff= er > from the MathCad results. > > At 05:55 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote: >> >> Thanks everybody for all their comments. It should take me a while yet >> to parse all that information. >> The Inyo looks like it might fit inside a pressure cooker? That might >> help to isolate it from barometric pressure variation. >> ********** >> I=92ll try to expand on how I derived the transfer function: >> >> 1.) Neither the ground nor the mass is stationary from the perspective >> of an inertial frame. > > Correct. > >> 2.) The only forces that can act on the mass are from the spring and >> from the feedback transducer. > > And the force resisting the acceleration of the mass as it is forced to > follow ground motion. The spring force (variation) is designed to be > negligible. > >> 3.) Both the spring force and the feedback transducer force depend >> only on the distance between the ground and mass (and derivative and >> integral of that distance). >> >> Those statements gave me this equation of motion for the mass: >> X(s) is the mass position from an inertial frame. >> Y(s) is the mass position from the intertial frame. > > One is ground position.......? > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0F =3D ma =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(Newton=92s Law) >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0F =3D F(s)[Y(s) =AD X(s)] =A0 (From =A02,3) >> So: =A0 =A0 M * s ^ 2 * X(s) =3D F(s) [Y(s) =AD X(s)] >> >> Then it=92s just algebra to get the transfer function. >> >> Now F(s) =3D K_m =A0+ =A0K_p =A0+ =A0K_i / s =A0+ =A0s * K_d > > I think here you are deriving an expression for the gain *around* the loo= p, > the 'loop gain' , which is an important concept, but it is not the > instrument response. > > What needs to be considered is that the instrument's output is taken > following Q, the 'forward' portion of the loop. =A0To get the loop gain y= ou > multiplied Q by G*(1/R_p + C + 1/(T*R_i)), the 'feedback' portion of the > loop, which for simplicity we can call B. So the loop gain is just Q B. = =A0In > the configuration I described, if Q B >> 1, which is assured (at all but = the > highest frequencies) by design, by making Q large enough, the instrument > response will closely approximate 1/B. =A0Interestingly, that means that = it > doesn't depend on the spring characteristics or on Q (so long as it is hi= gh > enough), but only on B -- which is the whole point of using feedback. =A0= The > 'feedback.pdf' reference is a simple explanation of how that works. > >> Where K_m is the mechanical spring constant, K_p, K_i, and K_d are the >> constants of the PID controller. For example, K_p =3D Q*G/R_p where Q is >> the position sensor sensitivity in V/m, G is N/m, and R_p is the >> proportional feedback resistor. Likewise, K_d=3D G*Q*C, and K_i=3DQ*G/(T >> *R_i) where T is the integrator time constant. > > Regards, > Brett > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of th= e > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Vertical BB Development From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:34:21 -0400 Hi Matt, You have just identified one of the problems with=20 the STM-8 feedback loop, The loop gain reflects=20 the relative ability of the loop to be 'in=20 control' The numbers you have given indicate=20 that the loop gain might be less than 2 under=20 some conditions, which is true. At certain=20 frequencies the loop is not able to adequately overpower the spring. You may be ready to be seriously diving into this=20 if you have=20 Excel. Try=20 http://bnordgren.org/seismo/loop7.zip Take a=20 look at the 'macros' tab for a quick idea of how=20 to load data sets so you can load the parameters=20 for the STM-8 and get a good look at what's going=20 on. In the Inyo FBV we were shooting for a loop=20 gain of over 100 in that frequency region and I=20 think we might have ended up with something around 200. I ought to mention that I've found that the old=20 XP version of Excel (2002 ?) works much better on=20 these big spreadsheets than 2007. Here's hoping=20 that 2010 fixes some of the extreme slowness=20 problems I have seen when working with the newer=20 Excel, particularly with another big spring-design workbook. The documentation pdf has a section which walks=20 you through the process of doing a sample=20 design. Several people have gotten quite good at=20 doing feedback seismometer design and analysis=20 with the workbook, but it seemed to typically=20 take two or three weeks for them to get=20 comfortable with the process. We would now never=20 consider doing a new design or making changes to=20 the loop without first trying it out in loop7. I also have a number of small spreadsheets that=20 can help out when designing things like inverse filters and such. Have fun, and let me know whenever you have questions. Brett At 07:43 PM 3/15/2010, you wrote: >Hi Brett > >I think we're both right. Draw a feedback loop with 1/s^2 in the >forward path, and k/m + s*lambda/m in the feedback portion and you'll >get the "Quadratic Polynomial/Spring Mass" expression you have in your >derivation. (lambda is viscous damping). Then around that loop put the >electrical feedback. By a few diagram manipulations you get that the >electrical feedback is operating in parallel with the mechanical >feedback. > >STM's spring constant is 4.9 N/m, but the electrical proportional >feedback is ~ (380000 V/m)*(13 N/A)/(561000 V/A) =3D 8.8 N/m. So the >mechanical portion is still significant. > > >Matt > >On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Brett Nordgren=20 > wrote: > > Matt, > > > > I went through your calculations and now think I understand why they= differ > > from the MathCad results. > > > > At 05:55 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote: > >> > >> Thanks everybody for all their comments. It should take me a while yet > >> to parse all that information. > >> The Inyo looks like it might fit inside a pressure cooker? That might > >> help to isolate it from barometric pressure variation. > >> ********** > >> I=92ll try to expand on how I derived the transfer function: > >> > >> 1.) Neither the ground nor the mass is stationary from the perspective > >> of an inertial frame. > > > > Correct. > > > >> 2.) The only forces that can act on the mass are from the spring and > >> from the feedback transducer. > > > > And the force resisting the acceleration of the mass as it is forced to > > follow ground motion. The spring force (variation) is designed to be > > negligible. > > > >> 3.) Both the spring force and the feedback transducer force depend > >> only on the distance between the ground and mass (and derivative and > >> integral of that distance). > >> > >> Those statements gave me this equation of motion for the mass: > >> X(s) is the mass position from an inertial frame. > >> Y(s) is the mass position from the intertial frame. > > > > One is ground position.......? > > > >> F =3D ma (Newton=92s Law) > >> F =3D F(s)[Y(s) =AD X(s)] (From 2,3) > >> So: M * s ^ 2 * X(s) =3D F(s) [Y(s) =AD X(s)] > >> > >> Then it=92s just algebra to get the transfer function. > >> > >> Now F(s) =3D K_m + K_p + K_i / s + s * K_d > > > > I think here you are deriving an expression for the gain *around* the= loop, > > the 'loop gain' , which is an important concept, but it is not the > > instrument response. > > > > What needs to be considered is that the instrument's output is taken > > following Q, the 'forward' portion of the loop. To get the loop gain= you > > multiplied Q by G*(1/R_p + C + 1/(T*R_i)), the 'feedback' portion of the > > loop, which for simplicity we can call B. So the loop gain is just Q B. = In > > the configuration I described, if Q B >> 1,=20 > which is assured (at all but the > > highest frequencies) by design, by making Q large enough, the instrument > > response will closely approximate 1/B. Interestingly, that means that= it > > doesn't depend on the spring characteristics or on Q (so long as it is= high > > enough), but only on B -- which is the whole point of using feedback. = The > > 'feedback.pdf' reference is a simple explanation of how that works. > > > >> Where K_m is the mechanical spring constant, K_p, K_i, and K_d are the > >> constants of the PID controller. For example, K_p =3D Q*G/R_p where Q= is > >> the position sensor sensitivity in V/m, G is N/m, and R_p is the > >> proportional feedback resistor. Likewise, K_d=3D G*Q*C, and K_i=3DQ*G/(= T > >> *R_i) where T is the integrator time constant. > > > > Regards, > > Brett > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of= the > > message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Vertical BB Development From: "Timothy Carpenter" geodynamics@....... Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:48:55 -0400 Brett, I've been following the thread with interest. I noticed your comment about Excel. I had nothing but bad things to say about the 2007 version. It seemed to choke on even the simplest spreadsheets with embedded computations. Like you I fell back to the XP version but I also kept 2007 on my system because it had some features that I needed. For the last several months I've been beta-testing Excel 2010 and have found it to be a significant improvement over 2007. Regards, -Tim- > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l- > request@............... On Behalf Of Brett Nordgren > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:34 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Re: Vertical BB Development > > Hi Matt, > > You have just identified one of the problems with the STM-8 feedback loop, > The loop gain reflects the relative ability of the loop to be 'in control' The > numbers you have given indicate that the loop gain might be less than 2 > under some conditions, which is true. At certain frequencies the loop is not > able to adequately overpower the spring. > > You may be ready to be seriously diving into this if you have Excel. Try > http://bnordgren.org/seismo/loop7.zip Take a > look at the 'macros' tab for a quick idea of how to load data sets so you can > load the parameters for the STM-8 and get a good look at what's going on. In > the Inyo FBV we were shooting for a loop gain of over 100 in that frequency > region and I think we might have ended up with something around 200. > > I ought to mention that I've found that the old XP version of Excel (2002 ?) > works much better on these big spreadsheets than 2007. Here's hoping that > 2010 fixes some of the extreme slowness problems I have seen when > working with the newer Excel, particularly with another big spring-design > workbook. > > The documentation pdf has a section which walks you through the process > of doing a sample design. Several people have gotten quite good at doing > feedback seismometer design and analysis with the workbook, but it > seemed to typically take two or three weeks for them to get comfortable > with the process. We would now never consider doing a new design or > making changes to the loop without first trying it out in loop7. > > I also have a number of small spreadsheets that can help out when designing > things like inverse filters and such. > > Have fun, and let me know whenever you have questions. > > Brett > > At 07:43 PM 3/15/2010, you wrote: > >Hi Brett > > > >I think we're both right. Draw a feedback loop with 1/s^2 in the > >forward path, and k/m + s*lambda/m in the feedback portion and you'll > >get the "Quadratic Polynomial/Spring Mass" expression you have in your > >derivation. (lambda is viscous damping). Then around that loop put the > >electrical feedback. By a few diagram manipulations you get that the > >electrical feedback is operating in parallel with the mechanical > >feedback. > > > >STM's spring constant is 4.9 N/m, but the electrical proportional > >feedback is ~ (380000 V/m)*(13 N/A)/(561000 V/A) = 8.8 N/m. So the > >mechanical portion is still significant. > > > > > >Matt > > > >On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Brett Nordgren > > wrote: > > > Matt, > > > > > > I went through your calculations and now think I understand why they > > > differ from the MathCad results. > > > > > > At 05:55 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote: > > >> > > >> Thanks everybody for all their comments. It should take me a while > > >> yet to parse all that information. > > >> The Inyo looks like it might fit inside a pressure cooker? That > > >> might help to isolate it from barometric pressure variation. > > >> ********** > > >> I'll try to expand on how I derived the transfer function: > > >> > > >> 1.) Neither the ground nor the mass is stationary from the > > >> perspective of an inertial frame. > > > > > > Correct. > > > > > >> 2.) The only forces that can act on the mass are from the spring > > >> and from the feedback transducer. > > > > > > And the force resisting the acceleration of the mass as it is forced > > > to follow ground motion. The spring force (variation) is designed to > > > be negligible. > > > > > >> 3.) Both the spring force and the feedback transducer force depend > > >> only on the distance between the ground and mass (and derivative > > >> and integral of that distance). > > >> > > >> Those statements gave me this equation of motion for the mass: > > >> X(s) is the mass position from an inertial frame. > > >> Y(s) is the mass position from the intertial frame. > > > > > > One is ground position.......? > > > > > >> F = ma (Newton's Law) > > >> F = F(s)[Y(s) - X(s)] (From 2,3) > > >> So: M * s ^ 2 * X(s) = F(s) [Y(s) - X(s)] > > >> > > >> Then it's just algebra to get the transfer function. > > >> > > >> Now F(s) = K_m + K_p + K_i / s + s * K_d > > > > > > I think here you are deriving an expression for the gain *around* > > > the loop, the 'loop gain' , which is an important concept, but it is > > > not the instrument response. > > > > > > What needs to be considered is that the instrument's output is taken > > > following Q, the 'forward' portion of the loop. To get the loop > > > gain you multiplied Q by G*(1/R_p + C + 1/(T*R_i)), the 'feedback' > > > portion of the loop, which for simplicity we can call B. So the loop > > > gain is just Q B. In the configuration I described, if Q B >> 1, > > which is assured (at all but the > > > highest frequencies) by design, by making Q large enough, the > > > instrument response will closely approximate 1/B. Interestingly, > > > that means that it doesn't depend on the spring characteristics or > > > on Q (so long as it is high enough), but only on B -- which is the > > > whole point of using feedback. The 'feedback.pdf' reference is a simple > explanation of how that works. > > > > > >> Where K_m is the mechanical spring constant, K_p, K_i, and K_d are > > >> the constants of the PID controller. For example, K_p = Q*G/R_p > > >> where Q is the position sensor sensitivity in V/m, G is N/m, and > > >> R_p is the proportional feedback resistor. Likewise, K_d= G*Q*C, > > >> and K_i=Q*G/(T > > >> *R_i) where T is the integrator time constant. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Brett > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body > > > of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See > > > http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > >_________________________________________________________ > _ > > > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > >the message (first line only): unsubscribe See > >http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe See > http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Close to 4000 files From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:32:46 +0000 Hi all, I am now close to 4000 files because of the earthquakes in the volcano Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. This translates to 1333 earthquakes that I have recored since the start of March 2010. I have my work cut out for me. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attention southern Californian PSNers From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:08:55 -0700 Jerry- One can always hope for surplus gold! George At 11:26 AM 3/15/2010, you wrote: >And you just thought that was the LAST "Gold Rush" if any become >available!! (smile) >Jerry > >----- Original Message ----- >From: George Bush >To: psn-l@.............. >Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:14 PM >Subject: Re: Attention southern Californian PSNers > >Hi Chris and Bob - > >I appreciate your interest in this subject. Bob, keep us informed on >any further developments on ASL and possible surplus equipment. > >Thank you for your responses! > >George > > >...snip... George Bush Sea Ranch, CA, USA 38.73775N, 123.48882W Jerry-

One can always hope for surplus gold!

George

At 11:26 AM 3/15/2010, you wrote:

And you just thought that was the LAST "Gold Rush" if any become available!! (smile)
Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From: George Bush

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:14 PM

Subject: Re: Attention southern Californian PSNers

Hi Chris and Bob -

I appreciate your interest in this subject. Bob, keep us informed on any further developments on ASL and possible surplus equipment.

Thank you for your responses!

George

...snip...

George Bush
Sea Ranch, CA, USA
38.73775N, 123.48882W Subject: Massive Chilean Quake Moved Whole Cities From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:23:40 -0500 http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/03/10/massive-chilean-quake-moved-cities/ An interesting article about the Chilean 8.8 Quake. Jerry

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/03/10/massive-chilean-q= uake-moved-cities/

An interesting article about the Chilean 8.8 Quake.

Jerry

Subject: CNN indicates a reduction in # of CA Earthquakes From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:21:28 -0700 They say that Kirsty Ally is going to loose weight which means her arobics will no longer appear as a flurry of small California Earthquakes . Cheers, :-) :-O :-| __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: [GVA] Freeware Recommended: Smart Defrag From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:52:21 -0700 Hello PSN, A Freeware third party disk utility to help order your amateur data files. I just tried out this piece of freeware that works well to defrag an NTFS disk and gives you the old style graphic display of exactly what its doing to your drive. I have used it and it works very well. It will help you keep your disk straight and let you see what its doing lightning fast. you can configure and install in a most satisfactory way this freeware program. Like AVG, it most likely will not always be freeware. Regards, geoff I use it on my WIN VISTA HOME PREMIUM 64 NTFS DISK format I like it better than current Microsoft version because it graphically lets you watch what its doing. YOU can uninstall it like any other installed program. ********************** NOTE BELOW from the programs developer ************************* Hi, I found this great free tool -- Smart Defrag -- at www.iobit.com. It speeds up my PC by defragmenting those slow files in the background automatically and quietly, so that I do not have to re-install my Windows or purchase a new computer. I really like it and best of all, it is completely free. They do not insert adware to your PC and they do not spy on you. Smart Defrag has received very positive reviews from publications such as CNET, Chip and PC World. A smart tool to maintain your system performance, speed and stability for no cost at all! You can download and use it for free at http://www.iobit.com/iobitsmartdefrag.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Volcano eruption in =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 01:33:30 +0000 Hi all, A volcano eruption has started in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. The volcano tremor might appear in my Hekla sensor when the wind slows down. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Re:_Volcano_eruption_in_Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:59:53 -0500 Jon, Here is FoxNews article about eruption.......... http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/03/21/hundreds-evacuate-volcano-erupts-iceland/?test=latestnews Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: J�n Fr�mann To: PSN-Postlist Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 8:33 PM Subject: Volcano eruption in Eyjafjallaj�kull Hi all, A volcano eruption has started in Eyjafjallaj�kull. The volcano tremor might appear in my Hekla sensor when the wind slows down. Regards, -- J�n Fr�mann J�nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Jon,

Here is FoxNews article about eruption.......... http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010= /03/21/hundreds-evacuate-volcano-erupts-iceland/?test=3Dlatestnews

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 J=F3n = Fr=EDmann

To: PSN-Postlist

Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 = 8:33=20 PM

Subject: Volcano eruption in=20 Eyjafjallaj=F6kull

Hi all,

A volcano eruption has started in=20 Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. The volcano tremor
might appear in my Hekla = sensor when=20 the wind slows down.

Regards,
--
J=F3n Fr=EDmann=20 = J=F3nsson

________________________________________________________= __

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_Volcano_eruption_in_Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 08:38:34 -0700 Jon, Are there any web cams streaming from Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. Can you give = us a lesson on how to pronounce Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 6:34 PM To: PSN-Postlist Subject: Volcano eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull Hi all, A volcano eruption has started in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. The volcano tremor might appear in my Hekla sensor when the wind slows down. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Volcano_eruption_in_Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:05:13 -0500 Gary, here is a recording of the pronunciation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull.ogg Say THAT fast three times......... Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Lindgren To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: RE: Volcano eruption in Eyjafjallaj�kull Jon, Are there any web cams streaming from Eyjafjallaj�kull. Can you give us a lesson on how to pronounce Eyjafjallaj�kull. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of J�n Fr�mann Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 6:34 PM To: PSN-Postlist Subject: Volcano eruption in Eyjafjallaj�kull Hi all, A volcano eruption has started in Eyjafjallaj�kull. The volcano tremor might appear in my Hekla sensor when the wind slows down. Regards, -- J�n Fr�mann J�nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Gary, here is a recording of the pronunciation:

http= ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull.ogg

Say THAT fast three times.........

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Gary=20 Lindgren

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 = 10:38=20 AM

Subject: RE: Volcano eruption = in=20 Eyjafjallaj=F6kull

Jon,
Are there any web cams streaming from = Eyjafjallaj=F6kull.=20 Can you give us a
lesson on how to pronounce=20 = Eyjafjallaj=F6kull.
Gary

-----Original = Message-----
From: psn-l-request@............... =20 [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On
Behalf Of J=F3n = Fr=EDmann
Sent:=20 Saturday, March 20, 2010 6:34 PM
To: PSN-Postlist
Subject: = Volcano=20 eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull

Hi all,

A volcano = eruption has=20 started in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. The volcano tremor
might appear in = my Hekla=20 sensor when the wind slows down.

Regards,
--
J=F3n = Fr=EDmann=20 = J=F3nsson

________________________________________________________= __

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more=20 = information.

_________________________________________________= _________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Volcano eruption in =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: Richard Webb dwebb002@............. Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 13:10:13 -0400 Boy, at least I can pronounce it now. I'll never be able to remember how to spell it. Dick On 3/21/2010 1:05 PM, GPayton wrote: > Gary, here is a recording of the pronunciation: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull.ogg > Say THAT fast three times......... > Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Gary Lindgren > *To:* psn-l@.............. > *Sent:* Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:38 AM > *Subject:* RE: Volcano eruption in Eyjafjallaj�kull > > Jon, > Are there any web cams streaming from Eyjafjallaj�kull. Can you > give us a > lesson on how to pronounce Eyjafjallaj�kull. > Gary > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. > > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of J�n Fr�mann > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 6:34 PM > To: PSN-Postlist > Subject: Volcano eruption in Eyjafjallaj�kull > > Hi all, > > A volcano eruption has started in Eyjafjallaj�kull. The volcano tremor > might appear in my Hekla sensor when the wind slows down. > > Regards, > -- > J�n Fr�mann J�nsson > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. > with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. > with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > -- Richard Webb Raleigh, NC Farr and Webb Family Genealogy site: http://Genequake.com/Genealogy Family and Seismology site: http://Genequake.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Volcano eruption in =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:23:11 +0000 Hi Gary, All the web cams that I know of at the moment are on my web page, http://earthquakes.jonfr.com check the web cam section. I am save. As I live ~150 km away from Eyjafjallaj=F6kull and this just a fissure eruption that is taking place at the moment. Just lava shooting out. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-03-21 at 08:38 -0700, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > Are there any web cams streaming from Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. Can you give us= a > lesson on how to pronounce Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 6:34 PM > To: PSN-Postlist > Subject: Volcano eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > A volcano eruption has started in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. The volcano tremor > might appear in my Hekla sensor when the wind slows down. >=20 > Regards, __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Upload to Web From: Richard Webb dwebb002@............. Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:32:58 -0400 I am using WinSDR and was wondering how I can upload, on a regular basis, the display to my personal web site. I've not found anything when I searched the older PSN emails. Dick -- Richard Webb Raleigh, NC Farr and Webb Family Genealogy site: http://Genequake.com/Genealogy Family and Seismology site: http://Genequake.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Upload to Web From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 13:45:49 -0700 Richard, Many people use a freeware product called "Fling". This works well if you can locally create an image file which is then automatically uploaded to your website. You can find complete directions on how to use it at http://www.iris.edu/hq/files/programs/education_and_outreach/seismographs_in_schools/docs/Amaseis-and-Fling.pdf Alternatively, you can use a product called "SnagIt" which will do the screen capture and upload together. It is available at http://www.techsmith.com/screen-capture.asp Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Webb" To: Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 1:32 PM Subject: Upload to Web >I am using WinSDR and was wondering how I can upload, on a regular basis, >the display to my personal web site. I've not found anything when I >searched the older PSN emails. > > Dick > > -- > Richard Webb > Raleigh, NC > > Farr and Webb Family Genealogy site: http://Genequake.com/Genealogy > Family and Seismology site: http://Genequake.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Upload to Web From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:15:11 +0000 Hi, WinSDR has ftp and gif image options. They are in the Settings option in WinSDR. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-03-21 at 16:32 -0400, Richard Webb wrote: > I am using WinSDR and was wondering how I can upload, on a regular=20 > basis, the display to my personal web site. I've not found anything=20 > when I searched the older PSN emails. >=20 > Dick __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Upload to Web From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 14:20:33 -0700 Richard, Does your web site accept FTP uploads? If so then just go to Settings in WinSDR and select FTP Upload. It's all there, enter the channels you want to upload, user name, password, etc. And you're all set. Then select GIF Files/ Settings and enter what files you want to upload and Filter settings. Finally go to GIF Files/ Upload Settings to set how often you want to refresh the files. That should do it. Of course will need to tell your web site how to handle the GIF files. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Richard Webb Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 1:33 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Upload to Web I am using WinSDR and was wondering how I can upload, on a regular basis, the display to my personal web site. I've not found anything when I searched the older PSN emails. Dick -- Richard Webb Raleigh, NC Farr and Webb Family Genealogy site: http://Genequake.com/Genealogy Family and Seismology site: http://Genequake.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Upload to Web From: Richard Webb dwebb002@............. Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:32:17 -0400 Thanks to all for the advice. Now it's up to me to find out what my web site can handle. Stay tuned and note the site below. Dick On 3/21/2010 5:20 PM, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Richard, > Does your web site accept FTP uploads? If so then just go to Settings in > WinSDR and select FTP Upload. It's all there, enter the channels you want to > upload, user name, password, etc. And you're all set. Then select GIF Files/ > Settings and enter what files you want to upload and Filter settings. > Finally go to GIF Files/ Upload Settings to set how often you want to > refresh the files. That should do it. Of course will need to tell your web > site how to handle the GIF files. > Gary > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of Richard Webb > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 1:33 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Upload to Web > > I am using WinSDR and was wondering how I can upload, on a regular > basis, the display to my personal web site. I've not found anything > when I searched the older PSN emails. > > Dick > > -- Richard Webb Raleigh, NC Farr and Webb Family Genealogy site: http://Genequake.com/Genealogy Family and Seismology site: http://Genequake.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Web cam of the eruption From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 16:41:45 +0000 Hi all, Here is a web cam of current eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. http://mila.is/um-milu/vefmyndavelar/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/ You need a flash player to watch this live stream. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New Mexico quake? From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 21:45:26 -0500 Wasn't this quake contaminated by the Peru-Ecuador Border quake? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: New Mexico quake? From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:03:53 +1100 not likely Thomas, it happened 1 hr before the M54 down in Peru Dave N At 09:45 PM 3/27/2010 -0500, you wrote: >Wasn't this quake contaminated by the Peru-Ecuador Border quake? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: New Mexico quake? From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 21:32:54 -0700 The quick answer is yes, the overlapped, but due to differences in = distance, the M 4.3 New Mexico event was much stronger on displays in = the US. The M 4.8 Peru-Ecuador Border quake was 13 minutes before the = New Mexico. It did not show up on my display or the display from = Tucson, AZ (TUC) or Albuquerque, NM (ANMO). I did not try special = filter, but it is possible with the right filtering both events could be = visible at the same time. The M 4.8 event was 5182 km from ANMO, while = the M 4.3 NM event was 341 km from ANMO. The New Mexico event only = lasted about 3 minutes here in Tucson before the waves subsided into = background noise. The New Mexico could have obscured some of the body = waves from the M 4.8 event as they arrived, but the surface waves would = have arrived after the M 4.3 event has subsided. Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ =20 On Mar 27, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Thomas Dick wrote: > Wasn't this quake contaminated by the Peru-Ecuador Border quake? > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of = the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: New Mexico quake? From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:13:47 -0500 > Thanks Bob, > It seems I had three things going here. The .1-.2 Hz stuff is back (even on the vertical --that's a little different) ... probably west coast storm again. The New Mexico quake came in here good. So did some of the vertical waves (P,PP, PcP and PPP) of the South American quake. Your comment that the New Mexico quake lasted a long time satisfies my confusion of where the surface waves were coming from. This has to be at least the third time in two weeks that two quakes got here at about the same time. The only one I remember was the one from Japan. Tom __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: USGS Meeting Monday AM From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:52:30 -0700 Dr. Walter Mooney of USGS in Menlo Park CA will speak on his experiences in Chile while helping install 6 seismographs to record aftershocks after the M8.8 earthquake. The meeting will be held Monday, March 29th, 10:30AM at Building 3 Auditorium (second floor), U.S. Geological Survey, 345 Middlefield Road, Menlo Park CA. The presentation will also be webcast live at: http://media.wr.usgs.gov/ I hope to get to this meeting. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

Dr. Walter Mooney of USGS in Menlo Park CA will = speak on his experiences in Chile while helping install 6 seismographs to record = aftershocks after the M8.8 earthquake. The meeting will be held Monday, March 29th, = 10:30AM at Building 3 Auditorium (second floor), U.S. Geological Survey, = 345 Middlefield Road, Menlo Park CA. The presentation will also be webcast = live at: http://media.wr.usgs.gov/ I hope to get to this = meeting.

Gary

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

650-326-0655<= /span>

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com &nbs= p; Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com =

sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home<= /a> Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

In a message dated 29/03/2010, alfa@.................. writes:

Space is=20 limited here, so a big Lehman (or two) was out of the question. After se= ttling=20 on the SG type of design, I thought that I'd try a double hinge that swi= ngs in=20 both directions... and build two
SG seismometers in the one box.
= Nobody=20 else seems to have tried carbon fibre to reduce thermal expansion=20
problems, so I thought I'd try that too.

Hi Glen,

It looks like you have made a huge effort, We= ll=20 done!

As you=20 can see from the pictures, the project got out of hand. Etched bras= s=20 labels, a stained wood cabinet, a big gauge with hand wound coils and ev= en=20 onboard audio for "alert! alert! alert!" if
an earthquake is=20 detected.

You jut may want to fit an on/off switch the= the=20 alert! circuit. Earthquakes can occur at some very inconvenient=20 times.

Its only=20 been running a short while and the software still can't save data, but= it=20 certainly seems sensitive enough to pick up every movement of my shaky= 3rd=20 floor block of flats. Simply walking
into the room tilts the floor= enough=20 for an almost full scale reading.

There are several good programs for recording= =20 earthquake data and more importantly, help with extracting the traces and= =20 analysing them.

You can use a 12 bit ADC, but a low nois= e 16=20 bit ADC will give a much better performance. The amplifier also needs to= be low=20 noise and you do need High and Low pass filters.

Opinions? Thoughts?
http://www.brasswings.com/seis.h= tml

Your main problem is going to be in building= sway /=20 background noise with the people, the wind and the traffic. Check and see= if=20 you can pick up the 5 to 6 second microseism background clearly? See= if you=20 can find some spare space either in a basement or on the ground=20 floor?

Stick with it!

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: VolksMeter single or dual channel instrument? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:46:36 EDT In a message dated 29/03/2010, amej@............. writes: I am reading the specs for the VolksMeter instrument. There is a 2-channe= l=20 or single channel instrument. Is this a good one to get? Which one? Is there a better instrument to purchase near this price, including=20 software and USB output? Dear Dick Harbegger, =20 This depends on what you want to do. You see a range of seismic=20 signals depending on the distance from the quake to your sensor. The high= er=20 frequency signals are absorbed as they travel through the earth. Local qu= akes=20 can generate fast P waves up to 10 Hz. Near Regional quakes up to 5 Hz,= far=20 Regional quakes up to about 3 Hz and teleseismic quakes up to about 2 Hz.= =20 The S waves which follow them are usually at about 1/2 of the P wave =20 frequency. When these waves strike the surface of the earth, they generate= much =20 slower surface transverse Love waves and vertical Rayleigh waves with peri= ods =20 typically of 15 to 25 seconds, but you sometines see additional waves at= =20 about 40 seconds, or at even longer periods from the occasional great qua= kes.=20 You also see environmental noise and microseism ocean background noise,= =20 usually at about 5 to 6 seconds period =20 Have a look at the 1960's Seismograph Training Manual at=20 _http://psn.quake.net/info/analysis.pdf_ (http://psn.quake.net/info/analys= is.pdf)=20 =20 The Volksmeter is a horizontal sensor. It is sold in either a single= =20 channel version or with two channels at right angles. It is basically a= 0.9=20 second pendulum with a digitally extended response under your control out= =20 to about 1000 seconds.=20 See plots on http://psn.quake.net/currentseismicity.html My funds are limited, but I would enjoy the features of this type of=20 instrument. I have been told that this is a horizontal movement device and I would=20 need one that includes a vertical sensor. True? I am at a stage where I do not want to re-invent the wheel, or piece=20 something together. NOT TRUE! Most professional sensors are triaxial and they rely on=20 vertical signals to determine the quake magnitude. This was first done by= =20 Richter using horizontal Wood-Anderson type sensors and it can still be= done=20 this way. I am located in the high desert of Southern California, near the San=20 Andreas fault. I was a participant to the former Seismic Pre-Cursor Net (W6FXN) on the= =20 2-Meter HAM Band. This was when "dog and cat" reports were experimental and others measured= =20 water well heights. I always enjoy reading the messages, especially from J=F3n in the cold=20 North. The expertise is too much for me to comment. Two single channel horizontal types and one single channel vertical /=20 triaxial type are listed on=20 _http://www.bgs.ac.uk/education/school_seismology/seismometer.html_=20 (http://www.bgs.ac.uk/education/school_seismology/seismometer.html) The= single channel horizontal types have a response from 5 Hz to=20 over 20 seconds, covering almost all of the shake range in practice. The= =20 CMG-EDU Guralps were used in the PEPP initiatives back in the mid 1990's= and=20 have a response of 30Hz to 30 seconds. They are semi professional sealed= =20 designs and are calibrated. =20 Horizontal sensors are hardly effected by atmospheric pressure noise,= =20 but they do see ground tilt noise, which increases at periods over ~20=20 seconds and limits the very long period detection capability. A bare vertical sensor may see VERY SERIOUS wide band atmospheric=20 pressure noise, which is why they need to be either compensated for this,= or=20 sealed in an airtight chamber. The chamber suspension needs to designed= so=20 that air pressure changes are not communicated to the sensor. They are ne= arly=20 immune to ground tilt noise. Go to _www.iris.edu/seismon_ (http://www.iris.edu/seismon) , highlight= =20 a local station and select the noise plots.=20 You need a ground level or basement low noise location. Check the=20 references to site selection on PSN. This is critically important !! =20 I hope that this helps.=20 =20 Chris Chapman <= FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>

In a message dated 29/03/2010, amej@............. writes:

I am=20 reading the specs for the VolksMeter instrument. There is a 2-channel or= =20 single channel instrument.
Is this a good one to get? Which one?
I= s=20 there a better instrument to purchase near this price, including
sof= tware=20 and USB output?

Dear Dick Harbegger,

This depends on what you want to do. You see= a=20 range of seismic signals depending on the distance from the quake to your= =20 sensor. The higher frequency signals are absorbed as they travel through= the=20 earth. Local quakes can generate fast P waves up to 10 Hz. Near Regional= quakes=20 up to 5 Hz, far Regional quakes up to about 3 Hz and teleseismic quakes up= to=20 about 2 Hz. The S waves which follow them are usually at about 1/2 of the= P wave=20 frequency. When these waves strike the surface of the earth, they generate= much=20 slower surface transverse Love waves and vertical Rayleigh waves with peri= ods=20 typically of 15 to 25 seconds, but you sometines see additional waves at= about=20 40 seconds, or at even longer periods from the occasional great quakes. Yo= u also=20 see environmental noise and microseism ocean background noise, usually at= about=20 5 to 6 seconds period

Have a look at the 1960's Seismograph Trainin= g=20 Manual at http://psn.= quake.net/info/analysis.pdf

The Volksmeter is a horizontal sensor. It is= sold=20 in either a single channel version or with two channels at right angles.= It is=20 basically a 0.9 second pendulum with a digitally extended response un= der=20 your control out to about 1000 seconds.

See plots on=20 http://psn.quake.net/currentseismicity.html

My funds=20 are limited, but I would enjoy the features of this type of instrument.<= BR>I=20 have been told that this is a horizontal movement device and I would nee= d one=20 that includes a vertical sensor. True?
I am at a stage where I do not= want=20 to re-invent the wheel, or piece something together.

NOT TRUE! Most professional sensors are triax= ial=20 and they rely on vertical signals to determine the quake magnitude. This= was=20 first done by Richter using horizontal Wood-Anderson type sensors and it= can=20 still be done this way.

I am=20 located in the high desert of Southern California, near the San Andreas= =20 fault.
I was a participant to the former Seismic Pre-Cursor Net (W6FX= N) on=20 the 2-Meter HAM Band.
This was when "dog and cat" reports were experi= mental=20 and others measured water well heights.

I always enjoy reading th= e=20 messages, especially from J=F3n in the cold North. The expertise is too= much for=20 me to comment.

Two single channel horizontal types and one= single=20 channel vertical / triaxial type are listed on http://www.bgs.a= c.uk/education/school_seismology/seismometer.html The= =20 single channel horizontal types have a response from 5 Hz to over 20= =20 seconds, covering almost all of the shake range in practice. The CMG-EDU= Guralps=20 were used in the PEPP initiatives back in the mid 1990's and have a respon= se of=20 30Hz to 30 seconds. They are semi professional sealed designs and are=20 calibrated.

Horizontal sensors are hardly effected by=20 atmospheric pressure noise, but they do see ground tilt noise, which incre= ases=20 at periods over ~20 seconds and limits the very long period detection=20 capability.

A bare vertical sensor may see VERY SERIOUS= wide=20 band atmospheric pressure noise, which is why they need to be either= =20 compensated for this, or sealed in an airtight chamber. The chamber= =20 suspension needs to designed so that air pressure changes are no= t=20 communicated to the sensor. They are nearly immune to ground tilt noise.

Go to www.iris.edu/seismon, highlight a local=20 station and select the noise plots.

You need a ground level or basement low noise= =20 location. Check the references to site selection on PSN. This=20 is critically important !!

I hope that this helps.

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: VolksMeter single or dual channel instrument? From: Dick Habegger amej@............. Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:54:55 -0700 Hi, I'll try to reply to Bret and Chris. Please note that I am not complaining, but I just am not ready to jump into this project with both feet. As most of us, our funds do not match our dreams. Also, I just do not have the time to spend on building a system as I should. Glenn went "whole hog" on his design. What a wonderful instrument. Something that would be appreciated in your living room. My location is on a the top of an alluvial plane consisting of sand and clay. I found this out when I had a well drilled. They went down to 960 feet without finding water, or bed rock. There was a lot of river sand and clay that clogged the drill. No water and no bed rock! Therefore, a stable platform is not available. In my past, I would visit the USGS offices in Golden, Colorado. Pearson would always take the time to talk with me and provide publications for my use. The science and expertise from this group has just overwhelmed me. All I want to do, is to have a monitoring station that would fit into my emergency communications facility and provide me with general knowledge of the "shaking". We all are getting older: Jim Berkland and myself! I appreciate the time you are taking to read my comments and question. You must be saying, "this guy is really a novice". This may be true, but I am serious. Years ago, I constructed a "Poor Mans Pendulum Seismograph". I provided an article for this construction to the HAM Seismic group. I am trying to be honest with you and, maybe, this will give some confidence to those who lurk on this group. Thank you! Dick Habegger Phelan, CA * ***** __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: VolksMeter single or dual channel instrument? From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:07:59 -0700 Dick- Sorry I do not have any information on the VolksMeter instrument, I am using old antique seismometers hooked-up to the Webtronics digitizer and it is working great. I noticed that you were involved with instrumentation on Earth Tides at Sandia. I retired from Lawrence Livermore National Lab and worked with Sandia occasionally. I would be very interested in their Earth tides program if you know something about it or of a contact or any papers I could read. I have attempted to make a sensitive tiltmeter based on an old article in Scientific American that was based on two-connected-cups of mercury and the signal was measured by changes of capacitance from plates just above the surface of the Hg. I was hoping to see Earth tides also, but it was not sensitive enough. If this is of any interest, check my website at http://gbush.mcn.org/ . Thanks, and I wish you luck- George At 11:45 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >Hi All, > >I am reading the specs for the VolksMeter instrument. There is a >2-channel or single channel instrument. >Is this a good one to get? Which one? >Is there a better instrument to purchase near this price, including >software and USB output? >My funds are limited, but I would enjoy the features of this type instrument. >I have been told that this is a horizontal movement device and I >would need one that includes a vertical sensor. True? >I am at a stage where I do not want to re-invent the wheel, or piece >something together. I've done that! > >I have some NICOLET Digital Oscilloscopes that I am willing to >trade. I am a former service rep for NICOLET. >While there, Sandia used this model of scope to document Earth >tides. ...snip... George __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Un Regards to: 100328.213800.rb1.psn From: rbenitez@........ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:08:33 -0500 (CDT) The file has been updated with the Z channel. Rolando Ben�tez Fraijanes, Guatemala > Hi Geoff - > > With the two horizontal channels,and the initial direction of the P wave > on each channel, you can achieve a great circle course line, but you will > not know which side of the receiving station that the event occurred. To > do that you also need the initial direction of the P wave on the vertical > channel. > > Bob Hancock > Three Points, AZ > > > On Mar 28, 2010, at 10:22 PM, Geoffrey wrote: > >> Wouldn't it be possible to somehow derive a bearing >> or angle of incidence somehow relating to the >> differences between the N/S and the E/W signals >> in this EVENT posted to PSN database ? >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of >> the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Un Regards to: 100328.213800.rb1.psn From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:46:46 -0700 Then i understand that with three channels you can with a single station get distance, magnitude and direction as well as focal depth ?? For best results Id hazard a guess that all data must be taken in synchronous fashion meaning all three channels are sampled simultaneous at the very same rate. And, is there any program to take such data and recreate a three dimensional picture showing angles and the absolute magnitude. There really is motion only in one direction but it seems you must have three different channels ro recreate that absolute motion in whatever direction ??? It seems to me that to recreate reality all known physical dimensions must be recorded simultaneously. You know what this says about everyday life ???. One rarely sees or senses reality. :-) Thanks for your reply. It opens my mind a bit. Best Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hancock" To: Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:37 PM Subject: Re: Un Regards to: 100328.213800.rb1.psn Hi Geoff - With the two horizontal channels,and the initial direction of the P wave on each channel, you can achieve a great circle course line, but you will not know which side of the receiving station that the event occurred. To do that you also need the initial direction of the P wave on the vertical channel. Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ On Mar 28, 2010, at 10:22 PM, Geoffrey wrote: > Wouldn't it be possible to somehow derive a bearing > or angle of incidence somehow relating to the > differences between the N/S and the E/W signals > in this EVENT posted to PSN database ? > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: VolksMeter single or dual channel instrument? From: "Les LaZar" llazar@.................. Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:04:33 -0700 In response to Dick's inquiry: I'm Les LaZar. I'm in charge of the VolksMeter product line at RLL Instruments. I have found that with seismic instruments, nothing beats an on-site test to see if the instrument meet your needs. I am willing to offer you a 1 or 2-channel VolksMeter for a 30-day evaluation. If it meets your needs, you buy it, if not, you return it. Your only cost if you return it would be the return shipping. I would also ask, whether you keep it or return it, that you write up a short review of your experience with the VolksMeter and post it here. What do you think? Les ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Habegger" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:54 AM Subject: Re: VolksMeter single or dual channel instrument? > Hi, > > I'll try to reply to Bret and Chris. > > Please note that I am not complaining, but I just am not ready to jump > into this project with both feet. > > As most of us, our funds do not match our dreams. Also, I just do not have > the time to spend on building a system as I should. > Glenn went "whole hog" on his design. What a wonderful instrument. > Something that would be appreciated in your living room. > > My location is on a the top of an alluvial plane consisting of sand and > clay. I found this out when I had a well drilled. > They went down to 960 feet without finding water, or bed rock. There was a > lot of river sand and clay that clogged the drill. > No water and no bed rock! Therefore, a stable platform is not available. > > In my past, I would visit the USGS offices in Golden, Colorado. Pearson > would always take the time to talk with me and provide publications for my > use. > > The science and expertise from this group has just overwhelmed me. > > All I want to do, is to have a monitoring station that would fit into my > emergency communications facility and provide me with general knowledge of > the "shaking". > > We all are getting older: Jim Berkland and myself! > > I appreciate the time you are taking to read my comments and question. You > must be saying, "this guy is really a novice". > This may be true, but I am serious. > > Years ago, I constructed a "Poor Mans Pendulum Seismograph". I provided an > article for this construction to the HAM Seismic group. > > I am trying to be honest with you and, maybe, this will give some > confidence to those who lurk on this group. > > Thank you! > > Dick Habegger > Phelan, CA > > > * ***** > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: VolksMeter single or dual channel instrument? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:11:08 -0700 > I have attempted to make a sensitive tiltmeter based on an old > article in Scientific American that was based on two-connected-cups > of mercury and the signal was measured by changes of capacitance from > plates just above the surface of the Hg. I was hoping to see Earth > tides also, but it was not sensitive enough. If this is of any > interest, check my website at http://gbush.mcn.org/ . I know you are adults yet I will warn all of you to stay away from Hg. It is tripleuncoolstuff that will damage your nervous system with every breath. It amazes me that this country is willing to use Hg vapor lamps. Its sort of like that nasty ancient roman empire where the leaders all poisoned themselves with seasoning their food with Plumb Bum. I used to work with the stuff and at night Id go to bed with a gold wedding ring covered in silvery Hg but in the morning it would once again be gold. The Hg on the ring was vaporizing while my wife and I slept. At work I was probably getting a much higher dose. I just say, please, as an amateur, stay away from that stuff. Best regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Un Regards to: 100328.213800.rb1.psn From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:28:51 -0700 Hi Geoff - You are correct that three channels can get distance with the S-P time = and using charts, you an get magnitude if your equipment is properly = calibrated, and you can determine direction, assuming you can get the = initial P wave motion off of all three channels and one of the channels = is on a null. Depth is dependent upon receiving certain waves (pP-P), = and if for some reason they are not visible you might not get depth. As for a visualization of the fault plane, you need to reference the = focal mechanism (beech ball) for the event. There are three variables, = Strike, Dip, and Rake. Following are some definitions I have found = useful for me to understand the concepts: Strike - the fault-trace direction in decimal degrees (0 to 360, = relative to North), de=EF=AC=81ned so that the fault dips to the right = side of the trace. That is, the fault always dips to the right when = moving along the trace in the strike direction (from one point to the = next). This means that the hanging-wall block is always to the right. = This is important because rake (which gives the slip direction) is = de=EF=AC=81ned as the movement of the hanging wall relative to the = footwall. For a vertical, strike slip fault (for which "hanging wall" = has no physical meaning) we still call the right-side block the hanging = wall to distinguish between right lateral and left lateral motion. Dip - the angle of the fault in decimal degrees (0 to 90, relative to = horizontal). Rake - the direction the hanging wall moves during rupture, measured = relative to the fault strike (between -180 and 180 decimal degrees). = Rake=3D0 means the hanging wall, or the right side of a vertical fault, = moved in the strike direction (left lateral motion); Rake =3D +/-180 = means the hanging wall moved in the opposite direction (right lateral = motion). Rake>0 means the hanging wall moved up (thrust or reverse = fault). Rake<0 means the hanging wall moved down (normal fault). This information is listed on the USGS notifications that are contained = in their list of recent events under "Scientific & Technical" and = denoted by a colored beech ball. They are listed under "Best Double = Strike Couple." There are two listings NP1 and NP2. NP1 is assumed to = be the axis that slipped and NP2 is the secondary axis. To find focal mechanism of older events you need to reference the Global = Centroid Moment Tensor catalog at the following address:=20 http://www.globalcmt.org/CMTsearch.html To translate these three numbers Strike, Dip, & Rake into a visual = graphic, I use the following program written by Prof Charles Ammon at = Penn State University: http://eqseis.geosc.psu.edu/~cammon/Java/fmech.html This is a Java based program and you will need the Java Run Time = Environment on your computer to make it work. An alternative program that I have also used that has lesser = limitations, but does not require the Java Run Time Environment was = written by Prof George Helffrich in the UK: http://www1.gly.bris.ac.uk/~george/focmec.html Cheers, Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ On Mar 29, 2010, at 4:46 PM, Geoffrey wrote: > Then i understand that with three channels you can > with a single station get distance, magnitude and direction as > well as focal depth ?? >=20 > For best results Id hazard a guess that > all data must be taken in synchronous fashion > meaning all three channels are sampled simultaneous at the very same = rate. >=20 > And, is there any program to > take such data and recreate a three dimensional picture > showing angles and the absolute magnitude. > There really is motion only in one direction > but it seems you must have three different > channels ro recreate that absolute motion in > whatever direction ??? >=20 > It seems to me that to recreate reality all known physical dimensions = must be recorded > simultaneously. >=20 > You know what this says about everyday life ???. > One rarely sees or senses reality. > :-) > Thanks for your reply. > It opens my mind a bit. >=20 > Best Regards, > geoff >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hancock" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:37 PM > Subject: Re: Un Regards to: 100328.213800.rb1.psn >=20 >=20 > Hi Geoff - >=20 > With the two horizontal channels,and the initial direction of the P = wave on each channel, you can achieve a great circle course line, but = you will not know which side of the receiving station that the event = occurred. To do that you also need the initial direction of the P wave = on the vertical channel. >=20 > Bob Hancock > Three Points, AZ >=20 >=20 > On Mar 28, 2010, at 10:22 PM, Geoffrey wrote: >=20 >> Wouldn't it be possible to somehow derive a bearing >> or angle of incidence somehow relating to the >> differences between the N/S and the E/W signals >> in this EVENT posted to PSN database ? >>=20 >> __________________________________________________________ >>=20 >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>=20 >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body = of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of = the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: OFFER TO THE INTERESTED From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:35:30 -0700 I Would Like to build a proper program for you. If you tell me the following, I will build a proper executable code and send you the source. Otherwise, it will be non-specific in which you must finish build it yourself to make it work. I do not capitalize on any of this so do not worry about obligations. I am happy to do this as part of the PSN world. 1. RAW DATA type to be converted a. INTEGER (two byte signed) b. INTEGER (four byte signed) c. SINGLE FLOAT (four byte) d. DOUBLE FLOAT (EIGHT BYTE) INPUT: SINGLE BLOCK OF SINGLE CHANNEL RAW DATA AS OPPOSED TO PSN FILE. 2. SAMPLE RATE RANGE (Hz meaning SAMPLES PER SECOND) 3. DESIRED FILE NAME for input file ( recommend you always use the same filename like a.dat or...) 4. desired filename for output 5. desired range for calibration frequencies in Hz marks as they relate to given sample rate. 6. Do you want the option to create the signal as a pseudo random noise ? ( it should be relatively invisible as a signal this way to naked eyes) I will compile an executable code to go with the source (if you want.) OR, Put it on the FTP server for you OR, send it to you via email as a RAR,ZIP, self extracting EXE archive. These are your as well as other PSN members options. I copyright nothing and sell nothing. Its all for your personal Seismic use. Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Hardy" To: Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:49 PM Subject: RE: OFFER TO THE INTERESTED > Hi Geoff, > > Interesting,,, > Can I please have a copy of the source code > > Regards > Dale > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of Geoffrey > Sent: Monday, 29 March 2010 9:10 AM > To: PSN-LIST > Subject: OFFER TO THE INTERESTED > > Hello PSN, > > If anyone is interested I would be glad to > compile a custom program for you > that would take your raw data and > sum in a single low level frequency > +/- one or two counts that could act > as a reference signal. > It would spit out a duplicate file > with a different name only > adding the pure expected frequency. > > It is a simple thing to do, > otherwise I am willing to > give you the basic source code > I use to do this. > > I am able to operate for short periods > of time an FTP server to distribute > such amateur software material. > > I have a variable IP address that is > not guaranteed to be always the same. > For security of my own machine I do not > want to be online for long periods > with a server running. > > Regards, > geoff > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2775 - Release Date: 03/28/10 > 06:32:00 > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Un Regards to: 100328.213800.rb1.psn From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:41:05 -0700 Interesting. Thanks Bob. putting these sites in my favorites. Best Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hancock" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:28 PM Subject: Re: Un Regards to: 100328.213800.rb1.psn Hi Geoff - You are correct that three channels can get distance with the S-P time and using charts, you an get magnitude if your equipment is properly calibrated, and you can determine direction, assuming you can get the initial P wave motion off of all three channels and one of the channels is on a null. Depth is dependent upon receiving certain waves (pP-P), and if for some reason they are not visible you might not get depth. As for a visualization of the fault plane, you need to reference the focal mechanism (beech ball) for the event. There are three variables, Strike, Dip, and Rake. Following are some definitions I have found useful for me to understand the concepts: Strike - the fault-trace direction in decimal degrees (0 to 360, relative to North), deﬁned so that the fault dips to the right side of the trace. That is, the fault always dips to the right when moving along the trace in the strike direction (from one point to the next). This means that the hanging-wall block is always to the right. This is important because rake (which gives the slip direction) is deﬁned as the movement of the hanging wall relative to the footwall. For a vertical, strike slip fault (for which "hanging wall" has no physical meaning) we still call the right-side block the hanging wall to distinguish between right lateral and left lateral motion. Dip - the angle of the fault in decimal degrees (0 to 90, relative to horizontal). Rake - the direction the hanging wall moves during rupture, measured relative to the fault strike (between -180 and 180 decimal degrees). Rake=0 means the hanging wall, or the right side of a vertical fault, moved in the strike direction (left lateral motion); Rake = +/-180 means the hanging wall moved in the opposite direction (right lateral motion). Rake>0 means the hanging wall moved up (thrust or reverse fault). Rake<0 means the hanging wall moved down (normal fault). This information is listed on the USGS notifications that are contained in their list of recent events under "Scientific & Technical" and denoted by a colored beech ball. They are listed under "Best Double Strike Couple." There are two listings NP1 and NP2. NP1 is assumed to be the axis that slipped and NP2 is the secondary axis. To find focal mechanism of older events you need to reference the Global Centroid Moment Tensor catalog at the following address: http://www.globalcmt.org/CMTsearch.html To translate these three numbers Strike, Dip, & Rake into a visual graphic, I use the following program written by Prof Charles Ammon at Penn State University: http://eqseis.geosc.psu.edu/~cammon/Java/fmech.html This is a Java based program and you will need the Java Run Time Environment on your computer to make it work. An alternative program that I have also used that has lesser limitations, but does not require the Java Run Time Environment was written by Prof George Helffrich in the UK: http://www1.gly.bris.ac.uk/~george/focmec.html Cheers, Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ On Mar 29, 2010, at 4:46 PM, Geoffrey wrote: > Then i understand that with three channels you can > with a single station get distance, magnitude and direction as > well as focal depth ?? > > For best results Id hazard a guess that > all data must be taken in synchronous fashion > meaning all three channels are sampled simultaneous at the very same rate. > > And, is there any program to > take such data and recreate a three dimensional picture > showing angles and the absolute magnitude. > There really is motion only in one direction > but it seems you must have three different > channels ro recreate that absolute motion in > whatever direction ??? > > It seems to me that to recreate reality all known physical dimensions must be recorded > simultaneously. > > You know what this says about everyday life ???. > One rarely sees or senses reality. > :-) > Thanks for your reply. > It opens my mind a bit. > > Best Regards, > geoff > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hancock" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:37 PM > Subject: Re: Un Regards to: 100328.213800.rb1.psn > > > Hi Geoff - > > With the two horizontal channels,and the initial direction of the P wave on each channel, you can achieve a great circle course > line, but you will not know which side of the receiving station that the event occurred. To do that you also need the initial > direction of the P wave on the vertical channel. > > Bob Hancock > Three Points, AZ > > > On Mar 28, 2010, at 10:22 PM, Geoffrey wrote: > >> Wouldn't it be possible to somehow derive a bearing >> or angle of incidence somehow relating to the >> differences between the N/S and the E/W signals >> in this EVENT posted to PSN database ? >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Another Homebrew Shackleford Gunderson Seismometer. From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:44:31 -0700 Wow, talk about fancy and expensive looking. In the tradition of the 1800,s. A human soul is a part of this device. Best Regards, geoff > need High and Low pass filters. > > Opinions? Thoughts? > _http://www.brasswings.com/seis.html_ (http://www.brasswings.com/seis.html) > > > Your main problem is going to be in building sway / background noise with > the people, the wind and the traffic. Check and see if you can pick up the > 5 to 6 second microseism background clearly? See if you can find some spare > space either in a basement or on the ground floor? > > Stick with it! > > Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Another Homebrew Shackleford Gunderson Seismometer. From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:52:45 -0700 At Arizona State University in the lobby of the Physics building they had a unique seismometer from which you had two sensors that could reproduce three dimensions as a vectored results. There were two inverted pendulums at a 45 degree vertical angle set at 90 degree horizontal angle. It seemed to be a short period device due to the small seize. I think it would be worth analyzing this design if anyone can find it to show everyone. I would go down there personally to photograph it for you guys if it is still there and they will allow me to do this. Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Durden" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 4:09 AM Subject: Another Homebrew Shackleford Gunderson Seismometer. > Hi. > Been reading the mailing list archives for about a year now, and you guys > have inspired me to build my own seismometer. > Space is limited here, so a big Lehman (or two) was out of the question. > After settling on the SG type of design, I thought > that I'd try a double hinge that swings in both directions... and build two > SG seismometers in the one box. > Nobody else seems to have tried carbon fibre to reduce thermal expansion > problems, so I thought I'd try that too. > > As you can see from the pictures, the project got out of hand. Etched > brass labels, a stained wood cabinet, a big gauge > with hand wound coils and even onboard audio for "alert! alert! alert!" if > an earthquake is detected. > > Its only been running a short while and the software still cant save data, > but it certainly seems sensitive enough to pick > up every movement of my shaky 3rd floor block of flats. Simply walking > into the room tilts the floor enough for an almost > full scale reading. > > Opinions? Thoughts? > http://www.brasswings.com/seis.html > > cheers... > Glenn (Melbourne, Australia) > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: VolksMeter single or dual channel instrument? From: Dick Habegger amej@............. Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 23:35:52 -0700 Hi Les, You have thrown down the gauntlet! I need to consider this offer as the instrument is at my maximum price range. Also, I do not know which model is needed: single or dual channel. Albeit, it is a horizontal device and a vertical detector should be part of the package. I have had both answers. What is your thought? Thank you for your offer. It is appreciated. Regards, Dick Habegger, N6MAS Phelan, CA Les LaZar wrote: > In response to Dick's inquiry: > > I'm Les LaZar. I'm in charge of the VolksMeter product line at RLL > Instruments. > > I have found that with seismic instruments, nothing beats an on-site > test to see if the instrument meet your needs. I am willing to offer > you a 1 or 2-channel VolksMeter for a 30-day evaluation. If it meets > your needs, you buy it, if not, you return it. Your only cost if you > return it would be the return shipping. I would also ask, whether you > keep it or return it, that you write up a short review of your > experience with the VolksMeter and post it here. > > What do you think? > > Les > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Habegger" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:54 AM > Subject: Re: VolksMeter single or dual channel instrument? > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Slow quakes in the Gisborne area, New Zealand From: Mark Robinson mark.robinson@............... Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 00:39:20 +1300 This may be of interest: > http://www.geonet.org.nz/news/mar-2010-more-slow-slip-events-in-the-gisborne-region.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: VolksMeter single or dual channel instrument? From: Claude Poirier stac0792@............ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:15:44 -0400 Hi All I know Les Lazar and I can tell you that if he is standing by his product he will keep his word I have a 2 sensor VolksMeter and not only they did the set up for me but they also checked everything in the unit. All that work was done more than a year after I have bought the unit and all free of charge. So I think you should jump on his offer. Finally I have also a sensor from Larry and I am satisfied of bought unit. Claude M. Poirier Sainte-Julie, Quebec Canada -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Dick Habegger Sent: 30 mars 2010 2:36 To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: VolksMeter single or dual channel instrument? Hi Les, You have thrown down the gauntlet! I need to consider this offer as the instrument is at my maximum price range. Also, I do not know which model is needed: single or dual channel. Albeit, it is a horizontal device and a vertical detector should be part of the package. I have had both answers. What is your thought? Thank you for your offer. It is appreciated. Regards, Dick Habegger, N6MAS Phelan, CA Les LaZar wrote: > In response to Dick's inquiry: > > I'm Les LaZar. I'm in charge of the VolksMeter product line at RLL > Instruments. > > I have found that with seismic instruments, nothing beats an on-site > test to see if the instrument meet your needs. I am willing to offer > you a 1 or 2-channel VolksMeter for a 30-day evaluation. If it meets > your needs, you buy it, if not, you return it. Your only cost if you > return it would be the return shipping. I would also ask, whether you > keep it or return it, that you write up a short review of your > experience with the VolksMeter and post it here. > > What do you think? > > Les > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Habegger" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:54 AM > Subject: Re: VolksMeter single or dual channel instrument? > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes From: Dave Saum dsaum@............ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:48:43 -0400 http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.66b782894f81ce278978976e97a59e5b.a61&show_article=1 http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.66b782894f81ce278978976e97a59e5b.a61&show_article=1 Subject: Re: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:52:24 -0400 Gee, sounds like they're on to something. Maybe they could line up a bunch of them and build a "toad array". On 3/31/2010 11:48 AM, Dave Saum wrote: > http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.66b782894f81ce278978976e97a59e5b.a61&show_article=1 > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)